THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. THE PEOPLE MAY CALL THEIR NEXT WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE PEOPLE CALL DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

MARK FUHRMAN, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
THE WITNESS: I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: MARK FUHRMAN, M-A-R-K F-U-H-R-M-A-N.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK:

Q DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, CAN YOU TELL US HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT TESTIFYING TODAY?
A NERVOUS.
Q OKAY.
A RELUCTANT.
Q CAN YOU TELL US WHY?
A THROUGHOUT -- SINCE JUNE 13, IT SEEMS THAT I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THE EVIDENCE IGNORED AND A LOT OF PERSONAL ISSUES COME TO THE FOREFRONT. I THINK THAT IS TOO BAD.
Q OKAY. HEARD A LOT ABOUT YOURSELF IN THE PRESS, HAVE YOU?
A DAILY.
Q IN LIGHT OF THAT FACT, SIR, YOU HAVE INDICATED THAT YOU FEEL NERVOUS ABOUT TESTIFYING.
HAVE YOU GONE OVER YOUR TESTIMONY IN THE PRESENCE OF SEVERAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS IN ORDER TO PREPARE YOURSELF OR COURT AND THE ALLEGATIONS THAT YOU MAY HEAR FROM THE DEFENSE?
A YES.
Q AND IN THE COURSE OF THAT PARTICULAR EXAMINATION, SIR, WAS THE TOPIC OF YOUR TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE WORK YOU DID IN THIS CASE, THE ACTUAL VISITATION TO BUNDY AND ROCKINGHAM, WAS THAT DISCUSSED?
A NO.
Q IT DEALT WITH SIDE ISSUES, SIR?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THAT EXERCISE?
MR. BAILEY: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: I HAVE NEVER BEEN CONFRONTED WITH A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING SUCH AS THIS, SO I WAS -- I THINK IT WAS A CONCERN THAT SOME OF THESE ISSUES HAVE NEVER BEEN BREACHED BEFORE.
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU SAY YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN CONFRONTED WITH A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING SUCH AS THIS, YOU HAVE TESTIFIED BEFORE, HAVEN'T YOU?
A YES.
Q IN CRIMINAL CASES?
A YES.
Q HOMICIDE CASES?
A YES.
Q SO WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY "A SITUATION LIKE THIS"?
A WELL, IT SEEMS THAT THE ISSUES WE WERE CONCERNED WITH WEREN'T EVIDENTIARY IN NATURE OR ABOUT THE CRIME; MOSTLY OF A PERSONAL NATURE.
Q ALL RIGHT, SIR.
CAN YOU TELL US HOW YOU ARE EMPLOYED RIGHT NOW?
A I'M A DETECTIVE FOR THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES CURRENTLY ASSIGNED TO WEST LOS ANGELES HOMICIDE.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO EMPLOYED?
A 19 YEARS SIX MONTHS.
Q AND IS THAT SINCE YOU HAVE JOINED LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR ASSIGNMENTS WERE ON JUNE THE 12TH AND THE 13TH?
A I WAS A DETECTIVE ASSIGNED TO WEST LOS ANGELES HOMICIDE.
Q OKAY. THAT WAS IN 1994?
A YES.
Q IN 1985 AND '88, WHERE WERE YOU ASSIGNED, SIR?
A WEST LOS ANGELES PATROL.
Q AND WHAT WERE YOUR DUTIES IN THAT CAPACITY?
A MOSTLY A PATROL CAR.
Q NOW, IN THE WEST LOS ANGELES AREA YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO, SIR, DID THAT INCLUDE THE BRENTWOOD AREA?
A YES....

Q NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE YEAR OF 1985, SIR, WERE YOU A PATROLMAN AT THAT TIME?
A YES, I WAS.
Q DID YOU RESPOND TO A RADIO CALL WHICH LED YOU TO THE LOCATION OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM IN BRENTWOOD?
A YES.
Q AND YOU WERE ON DUTY AT THAT TIME, SIR, WERE YOU?
A YES, I WAS.
Q CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE NATURE OF THAT CALL WAS?
A IT WAS A 415 FAMILY DISPUTE.
Q AND WHERE WERE YOU DIRECTED TO GO?
A 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM....

Q WHERE DID YOU GO TO WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION?
A WE DROVE -- I BELIEVE WE DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM TURNING ONTO ASHFORD WHICH BROUGHT US TO THE ASHFORD GATE WHICH WAS OPENED.
Q AND DID YOU DRIVE INTO THE DRIVEWAY OR PARK OUTSIDE?
A PARKED OUTSIDE.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I WALKED INTO THE DRIVEWAY AND I SAW TWO PEOPLE IN THE DRIVEWAY.
Q WHO DID YOU SEE?
A I SAW MR. SIMPSON AND A FEMALE THAT WAS LEANING ON THE HOOD OF A CAR.
Q AND WHAT KIND OF CAR WAS THAT?
A A MERCEDES BENZ.
Q AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE FEMALE THAT YOU SAW LEANING AGAINST THE HOOD OF THE CAR?
A SHE HAD HER HANDS TO HER FACE, SO I COULDN'T TELL MUCH OF WHAT SHE LOOKED LIKE IN THE FACE. SHE LOOKED LIKE SHE HAD LIGHT HAIR AND IT WAS HARD TO JUDGE THE HEIGHT, BUT I WOULD CHARACTERIZE AS AVERAGE HEIGHT AND AVERAGE WEIGHT.
Q WHAT WAS SHE DOING?
A SHE HAD HER HANDS TO HER FACE AND SHE WAS SOBBING.
Q AND WHERE WAS THE DEFENDANT AT THAT TIME?
A HE WAS WALKING ON THE DRIVEWAY.
Q WHICH DRIVEWAY WAS THAT?
A HIS DRIVEWAY AT ROCKINGHAM, THE DRIVEWAY ON ROCKINGHAM RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE MERCEDES.
Q OKAY. DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THE MERCEDES?
A THE WINDSHIELD WAS SHATTERED.
Q DID YOU LOOK TO SEE WHAT HAD BEEN THE CAUSE OF THAT WINDSHIELD GETTING SHATTERED?
A I SAW A BASEBALL BAT THAT WAS LEANING UP AGAINST THE WALL CLOSE TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q NOW, DID YOU GET A GOOD LOOK AT THE WOMAN'S FACE?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU HAVE RECOGNIZED HER AGAIN ON A LATER OCCASION?
A NO.
Q NOW, DID SHE SAY ANYTHING TO YOU AT THE TIME THAT YOU MADE CONTACT WITH HER?
A I MADE SOME INQUIRIES WHEN I FIRST WALKED UP AS IF THEY WERE THE RESIDENTS.
MR. SIMPSON RESPONDED SAYING THAT THIS WAS HIS HOUSE. AND I ASKED THE LADY WHO BROKE THE WINDSHIELD AND SHE RESPONDED "HE DID."
Q DID THE DEFENDANT MAKE ANY RESPONSE?
A I BELIEVE HE ADMITTED THAT HE HIT IT AND STATING THAT IT WAS HIS.
Q AND WHAT WAS HIS -- WHAT WAS THE DEFENDANT'S DEMEANOR AT THAT TIME?
A WELL, HE WAS AGITATED, BUT HE WASN'T OUT OF CONTROL. HE WAS JUST AGITATED.
Q COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THERE WAS ANY PHYSICAL INJURY TO THE BODY OF THE WOMAN?
A I COULDN'T TELL, NO.
Q OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANY SIGNS OF PHYSICAL INJURY TO HER?
A NO, NO.
Q AND DID YOU ASK HER IF SHE WANTED TO HAVE A REPORT PREPARED?
A YES.
Q AND HER RESPONSE?
A SHE DID NOT. SHE SAID NO....

Q AND YOUR PARTNER, DO YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT THE TIME YOU HAD CONTACT WITH THE DEFENDANT AND THE WOMAN?
A MY PARTNER WAS NEXT TO ME OR WITHIN A SHORT DISTANCE OF ME. I WAS TAKING THE LEAD TO AT LEAST ASK THE QUESTIONS.
Q OKAY.
NOW, DID THE DEFENDANT RESIST YOUR BEING ON THE PROPERTY AT ALL?
A NO.
Q DID YOU ARREST HIM?
A NO.
Q AFTER THE FEMALE INDICATED TO YOU THAT SHE DID NOT WANT TO FILE A REPORT, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A WE LEFT THE LOCATION....

Q NOW, BACK IN 1985 AND 1986, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER YOU KNEW SOMEONE OR MET SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF KATHLEEN BELL?
A YES, I CAN TELL YOU. I DID NOT.
Q BUT YOU DO RECOGNIZE THE NAME, DON'T YOU, SIR?
A YES.
Q WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HEARD THAT NAME?
A IT WAS IN '94, I BELIEVE IN THE FALL OF '94. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT MONTH.
Q BY THE FALL YOU MEAN SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER?
A SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER.
Q AND DO YOU RECALL WHEN YOU TESTIFIED IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING IN THIS MATTER?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHEN WAS THAT, SIR?
A I BELIEVE JULY 5TH AND 6TH, 1994.
Q OKAY. SO YOU FIRST HEARD HER NAME AFTER YOU TESTIFIED AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?
A YES.
Q AND HOW WAS IT THAT YOU HEARD HER NAME IN CONNECTION WITH WHAT?
A IN CONNECTION WITH ALLEGATIONS OF STATEMENTS I MADE TO HER AT A DATE SOME TIME IN '85 OR '86.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU HEAR THOSE ALLEGATIONS, SIR?
A IN THE NEWS.
Q AND WERE YOU INFORMED ABOUT A LETTER SHE HAD WRITTEN IN JULY OF 1994 AFTER THE PRELIMINARY HEARING TO JOHNNIE COCHRAN?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT LETTER THIS MORNING?
A I'M NOT SURE IF I REVIEWED THAT LETTER. I DON'T BELIEVE I REVIEWED THE LETTER. I HAVE SEEN A STATEMENT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS THAT INITIAL LETTER.
Q SO ARE YOU PRESENTLY VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE CONTENTS OF THE LETTER THAT THIS WOMAN WROTE TO MR. COCHRAN?
A OH, YES....

Q I'M GOING TO ASK YOU, SIR, WHEN WE LEFT OFF, I ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD SEEN A COPY OF THE LETTER WRITTEN BY THE WOMAN NAMED KATHLEEN BELL THAT SHE WROTE IN JULY OF 1994 TO MR. COCHRAN. I BELIEVE IT WAS JULY 19TH OF 1994 AND I WAS ABOUT TO ASK YOU TO READ THAT LETTER ON THE MONITOR. COULD YOU NOW DO SO, SIR?
A YES.
Q FIRST OF ALL, SIR, WITH RESPECT TO THIS PARAGRAPH, DID YOU VISIT A MARINE RECRUITING OFFICE LOCATED IN REDONDO BEACH IN 1985 TO -- BETWEEN 1985 AND 1986?
A YES.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER MEETING A WOMAN NAMED KATHLEEN BELL AT THAT MARINE RECRUITING OFFICE BETWEEN 1985 AND 1986?
A NO.
Q DID ONE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ON THIS CASE ASK YOU TO WATCH LARRY KING LIVE ON TELEVISION?
A YES, THEY DID.
Q AND DO YOU RECALL APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT WAS?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS IN THE LAST MONTH. I THINK IT WAS THE -- THE PROGRAM SHE WAS ON JUST BEFORE THE MOST RECENT. SO I THINK IT WOULD BE ABOUT A MONTH.
Q SO ABOUT A MONTH AGO?
A A MONTH, YES.
Q AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE WERE YOU WATCHING LARRY KING LIVE?
A THEY ASKED ME TO JUST LOOK AT THE SHOW AND SEE IF LOOKING AT THE WOMAN JOGGED MY MEMORY.
Q AND DID YOU THEN LOOK AT THE SHOW, SIR?
A YES.
Q DID YOU SEE A WOMAN WHO CALLED HERSELF KATHLEEN BELL?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU RECOGNIZE HER?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q NEXT PARAGRAPH. OKAY. YOU'VE READ THE CONVERSATION THUS FAR AS DESCRIBED IN THE LETTER?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q DID THE CONVERSATION KATHLEEN BELL DESCRIBES IN THIS LETTER OCCUR?
A NO, IT DID NOT.
Q AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR TESTIMONY, WE REFERRED TO A PRACTICE SESSION IN WHICH THERE WERE SEVERAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS WE REFERRED TO AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR TESTIMONY. THAT PRACTICE OR MOCK CROSS-EXAMINATION, DID THAT DEAL WITH THE ANTICIPATED CROSS-EXAMINATION ON THIS SUBJECT OF KATHLEEN BELL?
A YES, IT DID.
Q DID IT DEAL WITH YOUR ACTUAL WORK ON THIS CASE AS A POLICE DETECTIVE?
A NO, IT DIDN'T.
Q AND HOW LONG DID THAT EXAMINATION TAKE PLACE FOR?
A 20 TO 30 MINUTES.
Q AND THAT CONVERSATION THAT IS DESCRIBED IN THIS LETTER FROM KATHLEEN BELL, DID THAT OCCUR, SIR?
A NO, IT DIDN'T.
Q NOW, BACK IN 1985, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU RESPONDED TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME ON -- AT 360 ROCKINGHAM PURSUANT TO A CALL WHERE YOU SAW A WOMAN CRYING, LEANING UP AGAINST A MERCEDES BENZ. DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY, SIR?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q DID YOU EVER FILL OUT A REPORT THAT DESCRIBED THAT EVENT?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q NOW, YOU SAW THAT THE WOMAN INVOLVED WITH MR. SIMPSON WAS A WHITE WOMAN, DIDN'T YOU?
A YES.
Q DID YOU TAKE ANY STEPS TO FURTHER INVESTIGATE THAT INCIDENT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU MAKE ANY EFFORT TO ENCOURAGE THAT THE DEFENDANT BE PROSECUTED FOR IT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU ATTEMPT TO PERSUADE MISS --
LET ME BACK UP FOR A SECOND. THE WOMAN THAT YOU SAW THERE CRYING UP AGAINST THE MERCEDES BENZ, DID YOU -- HAVE YOU SINCE DETERMINED WHO THAT WAS?
A WELL, SINCE IT WAS TOLD TO ME WHO IT WAS, YES.
Q AND THAT PERSON IS?
A NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.
Q DID YOU ATTEMPT TO PERSUADE HER TO SEEK PROSECUTION FOR THE INCIDENT?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU HAVE DONE SO?
A YES.
Q DID YOU NOTIFY ANY NEWS MEDIA ABOUT THAT INCIDENT?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q DID YOU CALL THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU HAVE PADDED THE DEFENDANT DOWN AFTER THAT INCIDENT?
A I BELIEVE, CONSIDERING THE CALL, YES, I COULD HAVE.
Q DID YOU?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU HAVE ASKED FOR HIS IDENTIFICATION AS A RESULT OF THAT INCIDENT AT THAT TIME?
A ABSOLUTELY.
Q DID YOU?
A NO....

Q COULD YOU HAVE CALLED YOUR SUPERVISOR TO COME AND FURTHER INVESTIGATE THE INCIDENT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU?
A NO, I DIDN'T....

Q COULD YOU HAVE INTERVIEWED MR. SIMPSON CONCERNING THESE INCIDENT -- THAT INCIDENT?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU HAVE INTERVIEWED NICOLE BROWN CONCERNING THE INCIDENT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU HAVE INSISTED ON SOME FURTHER FOLLOW-UP OF THAT INCIDENT?
A I COULD HAVE, YES.
Q DID YOU?
A NO.
Q NOW, DID YOU CONTINUE TO WORK AT WEST L.A. AFTER THAT INCIDENT, SIR?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND DID YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL CONTACT WITH THE DEFENDANT AFTER 1985?
A NO.
Q NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU DID NOT WRITE ANYTHING DOWN TO DESCRIBE THE INCIDENT IN ANY KIND OF REPORT BACK IN 1985. AT SOME POINT IN TIME THOUGH, DID -- WERE YOU -- DID YOU WRITE SOMETHING CONCERNING THAT INCIDENT?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU WROTE?
A I WROTE A LETTER TO -- IT WAS ADDRESSED TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN, BUT IT WAS ADDRESSED TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. I'M SORRY. IT WASN'T ADDRESSED TO. IT WAS REQUESTED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
Q OKAY. NOW, CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT THAT IS, WHAT THAT WAS? WAS IT A LETTER? WAS IT A REPORT?
A I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE CHARACTERIZED AS A MEMO.
Q AND WHAT DID THAT MEMO CONTAIN? WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION DID IT HAVE?
A IT JUST DESCRIBED THE INCIDENT AS I REMEMBERED IT THAT OCCURRED IN 1985.
Q AND WHY DID YOU WRITE THAT MEMO, SIR?
A IT WAS REQUESTED BY A DETECTIVE THAT WAS HANDLING A CURRENT CASE IN 1989 INVOLVING MR. AND MRS. SIMPSON....

Q WAS IT YOUR IDEA TO WRITE THIS LETTER, SIR?
A NO.
Q YOU WROTE IT IN RESPONSE TO THE REQUEST OF THE CITY ATTORNEY?
A YES, VIA THE DETECTIVE HANDLING THE CASE.
Q OKAY. WHAT WAS YOUR POSITION AT THE TIME YOU WROTE THIS MEMO, SIR?
A I WAS A DETECTIVE TRAINEE.
Q STILL A POLICE OFFICER, RIGHT?
A YES.
Q OKAY. LOOK ON THE SCREEN, IF YOU WILL, SIR.... ALL RIGHT. I AM GOING TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION, SIR, FIRST OF ALL TO THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH. DO YOU RECALL WRITING THAT?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND DOES THAT DESCRIBE THE EVENTS THAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED FOR THE JURY AS YOU REMEMBER THEM WHEN YOU WROTE THE MEMO?
A YES.
Q IS THAT AN ACCURATE DEPICTION OF THE EVENTS?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU WROTE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS -- OH, EXCUSE ME. YOU HAVE HERE AT THE VERY TOP LINE, SIR, A 415, FAMILY DISPUTE. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT 415 MEANS?
A IT'S A DISTURBANCE.
Q AND THAT'S A PENAL CODE SECTION, IS IT?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THIS MEMO AFTER YOU WROTE IT, SIR?
A AT THE TIME IT WAS REQUESTED, I TYPED IT AND HANDED IT DIRECTLY TO THE DETECTIVE.
Q OKAY. NOW, YOU PUT DOWN AT THE BOTTOM HERE, "IT SEEMS ODD TO REMEMBER SUCH AN EVENT, BUT IT'S NOT EVERY DAY THAT YOU RESPOND TO A CELEBRITY'S HOME FOR A FAMILY DISPUTE. FOR THIS REASON, THIS INCIDENT WAS INDELIBLY IMPRESSED IN MY MEMORY....CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEANT BY THAT, THAT IT WAS INDELIBLY PRESSED IN YOUR MEMORY?
A WELL, I HAD NEVER BEEN TO A CELEBRITY'S HOME BEFORE ON A FAMILY DISPUTE. MR. SIMPSON WAS A VERY FAMOUS MAN, AND ONCE I WALKED IN, I RECOGNIZED HIM. AND THOSE TWO THINGS WOULD MAKE IT A MEMORABLE INCIDENT.
Q UH-HUH. ARE YOU A FOOTBALL FAN, SIR?
A NOT AS MUCH AS A BASKETBALL FAN, BUT YES, I AM.
Q OKAY. AND WHEN YOU WALKED ONTO THE PROPERTY OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM, DID YOU IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZE HIM?
A ONCE I GOT INTO THE DRIVEWAY, YES.
Q AND WAS THAT EVENT INDELIBLY PRESSED IN YOUR MEMORY?
A MORE SO WHEN I WROTE THIS THAN PREVIOUS TO JUNE 12TH, BUT YES, IT WAS THEN.
Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, IS WEST LOS ANGELES DETECTIVES YOUR CURRENT ASSIGNMENT, SIR?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND YOU WERE SO ASSIGNED I BELIEVE YOU TOLD US ON JUNE THE 12TH AND 13TH OF 1994?
A YES.
Q ON THE EVENING OF JUNE THE 12TH...DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL AT SOME POINT THAT NIGHT --
A YES, I DID....

Q AND WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THAT CALL?
A AT 1:05 IN THE MORNING.
Q DID IT WAKE YOU UP?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT WERE YOU TOLD IN THAT CALL?
A I WAS TOLD BY MY SUPERVISOR, THE HOMICIDE COORDINATOR, DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS, THAT WE HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AND IT WAS AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THAT I WOULD MEET HIM AT THE STATION AND WE WOULD GET A VEHICLE WITH A HOMICIDE KIT AND GO OUT TO THE SCENE FROM THERE.
Q WERE YOU TOLD ANYTHING ABOUT THE IDENTITY OF EITHER VICTIM?
A YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS SAID THAT THE FEMALE VICTIM MIGHT BE THE EX-WIFE OF O.J. SIMPSON.
Q AND WHERE DID THE CALLER TELL YOU TO GO?
A 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
Q SO WHERE DID YOU GO?
WAIT. LET ME -- WHEN YOU LEFT YOUR HOME, WHERE DID YOU GO?
A TO THE POLICE STATION AT 1663 SOUTH BUTLER, WEST LOS ANGELES STATION.
Q AND DID YOU MEET SOMEONE THERE?
A YES.
Q WHO?
A DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS.
Q AND WHAT TIME DID YOU MEET HIM?
A SHORTLY BEFORE 2:00 O'CLOCK, MAYBE 1:50.
Q DID YOU LEAVE IMMEDIATELY THEN?
A WELL, WE COLLECTED -- NOT IMMEDIATELY. WE COLLECTED BRIEFCASES, FLASHLIGHTS, ANYTHING WE THOUGHT WE NIGHT NEED AT THE SCENE, PUT IT INTO A VEHICLE AND LEFT FROM THAT -- FROM THE STATION PARKING LOT.
Q SO DID YOU DRIVE IN YOUR OWN CAR OR DID YOU GO WITH SOMEONE ELSE?
A WELL, WE DROVE IN OUR OWN VEHICLES TO THE STATION AND THEN PUT EVERYTHING INTO A POLICE VEHICLE AND LEFT FROM THE STATION TO GO TO THE SCENE.
Q SO YOU AND RON PHILLIPS WENT FROM THE STATION TO THE SCENE TOGETHER?
A YES. HE WAS DRIVING, I WAS PASSENGER.
Q AND DID YOU DRIVE TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THERE?
A 0210 HOURS IS WHEN WE SIGNED IN TO THE OFFICER THAT WAS RUNNING THE LOG.
Q OKAY. 2:10 A.M.?
A YES....

Q CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, IF YOU NOTED WHAT THE AMBIENT TEMPERATURE WAS WHEN YOU ARRIVED THAT NIGHT?
A I APPROXIMATED IT AT ABOUT 60 DEGREES.
Q AND WHEN YOU GOT THERE, YOU'VE ALREADY INDICATE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS THERE WERE POLICE CARS THERE. HOW MANY, IF YOU RECALL?
A I BELIEVE I SAW AT LEAST TWO BLACK AND WHITE'S WHEN I DROVE UP AND I BELIEVE WE WERE THE FIRST PLAIN OR DETECTIVE VEHICLE.
Q UH-HUH.
A I'M NOT SURE IF I WENT -- SAW ONE DOWN THE ALLEY ON DOROTHY TO THE WEST OF THE LOCATION, BUT AT LEAST TWO -- TWO BLACK AND WHITE'S IN FRONT.
Q WERE THEY IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION, SIR?
A IN FRONT OF 875 BUNDY?
Q UH-HUH.
A NO. THAT STREET WAS BLOCKED OFF.
Q OKAY. NOW, YOU CHECKED IN WITH A PERSON WHO WAS KEEPING A LOG. IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?
A YES....

Q SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S 1006. TELL US IF YOU CAN POINT OUT YOUR NAME, SIR, AND YOUR TIME OF ARRIVAL.
A IT'S THE 10TH ENTRY ON THE LOG, 010 -- 0210 HOURS. OUR DESIGNATION WAS 8W110 AND PHILLIPS AND MYSELF ARE SIGNED IN ON THAT LOG.
Q AS INVESTIGATORS?
A YES.
Q WHAT'S THAT 8W110? WHAT'S THAT?
A THAT'S RON PHILLIPS' CALL SIGN.
Q IS THAT WHAT YOU USE WHEN YOU GET ON THE RADIO TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF?
A YES. YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU GOT THERE, SIR... WHO WAS THERE?
A SERGEANT ROSSI AND I BELIEVE SERGEANT COON, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF HE WAS THERE AT THAT TIME FOR ME TO SEE OR IT WAS A LITTLE LATER, MAYBE A HALF HOUR LATER....

Q OKAY. DO YOU RECALL ANY STAFF OFFICERS OR COMMAND LEVEL OFFICERS THERE WHEN YOU GOT THERE?
A NOT AT THAT TIME.
Q NOW, WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE CRIME SCENE WHEN YOU FOUND IT, WHEN YOU GOT THERE AT 2:10?
A WELL, THE STREETS HAD BEEN BLOCKED OFF WITH CRIME TAPE AND POLICE VEHICLES. WE WERE ADVISED THAT CERTAIN STREETS AND ALLEYWAYS HAD BEEN BLOCKED OFF.
THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE HAD BEEN TAPED OFF AND SECURED ALL THE WAY TO DOROTHY AND TO THE NEXT STREET TO THE NORTH. THE NORTH-SOUTH ALLEYWAY DIRECTLY BEHIND THE RESIDENCE HAD BEEN BLOCKED OFF WITH POLICEMEN AT BOTH LOCATIONS TO MAKE SURE NOBODY ENTERED THE CRIME SCENE FROM EITHER DIRECTION.
Q OKAY. SO WAS THERE ANYONE MOVING AROUND INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE WHEN YOU GOT THERE?
A NO.
Q WHO WAS THE -- DID YOU MAKE CONTACT WITH THE FIRST OFFICER THAT FOUND THE BODIES?
A YES. BOTH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND I DID.
Q AND WHO WAS THAT?
A OFFICER RISKE.
Q AND DID YOU MAKE CONTACT WITH SERGEANT ROSSI AS WELL?
A YES. I BELIEVE SERGEANT ROSSI WAS CONTACTED FIRST. RISKE CAME UP WHILE WE WERE SPEAKING TO HIM.
Q NOW, OFFICER RISKE, DID YOU KNOW HIM PRIOR TO THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?
A NO. I ONLY KNEW HIM AS RISKE.
Q OKAY. DO YOU SOCIALIZE WITH OFFICER RISKE ANY?
A NO. I DIDN'T KNOW HIS FIRST NAME UNTIL I SAW IT ON THE NEWS.
Q OKAY. NOW, HE WAS A PATROL COP; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU EXPECT TO SEE PATROL OFFICERS AT THAT LOCATION WHEN YOU ARRIVED, SIR?
A YES.
Q AND WHY IS THAT?
A WELL, ALMOST -- ALMOST ALWAYS, A PATROL OFFICER IS THE FIRST OFFICER TO RESPOND TO A HOMICIDE SCENE. USUALLY IT'S FROM A RADIO CALL AND THEY'RE THE FIRST ONES THERE.
Q WHAT ARE PATROL OFFICERS' DUTIES AT A CRIME SCENE?
A THE FIRST AND FOREMOST FUNCTION WOULD BE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE POSSIBLE VICTIMS ARE IN FACT VICTIMS AND HAVE EXPIRED SO TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO CHANCE OF RESUSCITATION OR SAVING THE PEOPLE THAT ARE OR PERSON THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD.
THE SECOND WOULD BE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SUSPECT EITHER HAS BEEN FOUND, LOCATED AND ARRESTED OR HE IS NOT AT THE SCENE AND MAKE SURE THAT THE SCENE IS SECURE FROM SUSPECTS AND THEN THE THIRD WOULD BE, AFTER THOSE TWO FUNCTIONS, IS PROTECT THE CRIME SCENE AND ANY EVIDENCE FOR THE DETECTIVES IN THEIR INVESTIGATION.
Q HOW MANY HOMICIDE SCENES HAVE YOU APPEARED AT? NOT HANDLED, BUT APPEARED AT.
A WELL, I'D PROBABLY SAY IT WOULD -- CONSERVATIVELY, A HUNDRED FIFTY TO 200, AND GENEROUSLY, PROBABLY MORE THAN 250 TO 300.
Q OKAY. AND WHEN I SAY APPEARED AT, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT KIND OF FUNCTIONS YOU PERFORMED IN THOSE CASES, HOMICIDE SCENES YOU'VE APPEARED AT?
A WELL, FROM EARLY IN MY CAREER, TO RESPONDING JUST AS OFFICER RISKE DID TO A RADIO CALL TO ASSISTING AND BEING PART OF HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS TO BEING A PRIMARY INVOLVED INVESTIGATING THE HOMICIDE.
Q SO HAVE YOU EVER BEEN A FIRST OFFICER AT A HOMICIDE SCENE YOURSELF?
A YES.
Q HAVE YOU EVER GUARDED THE PERIMETER; THAT IS, GUARDED THE CRIME SCENE TAPE AT A HOMICIDE SCENE?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q HAVE YOU EVER HELPED TO SEARCH THE AREA AROUND THE CRIME SCENE FOR EVIDENCE OR SUSPECTS?
A YES.
Q HAVE YOU EVER DOOR KNOCKED IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND THE CRIME SCENE AREA TO LOOK FOR WITNESSES?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q AND HAVE YOU EVER RESPONDED TO A CRIME SCENE IN YOUR CAPACITY AS A DETECTIVE?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS HAVE YOU RESPONDED AS A DETECTIVE TO A HOMICIDE SCENE?
A I'VE BEEN A PRIMARY ON FIVE. I RESPONDED PROBABLY TO 10, MAYBE 15, SOME WHEN I WAS WORKING ROBBERY.
Q OKAY. NOW THEN, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, SIR, WHO DO YOU EXPECT TO ARRIVE AT A HOMICIDE SCENE BEFORE THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER OR HANDLING DETECTIVES DO?
A I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE THE PATROL OFFICERS THAT INITIALLY GOT THE CALL.
Q UH-HUH.
A WHAT OFFICERS THEY FELT THAT WAS NECESSARY TO SEAL OFF THE SCENE PROPERLY. I WOULD ALSO EXPECT TO SEE A SUPERVISOR IF NOT THE WATCH COMMANDER. I MIGHT EXPECT TO SEE A COMMAND STAFF OFFICER OR THE COMMANDING OFFICER OF THE DIVISION, EITHER BE IT DETECTIVES OR PATROL.
Q AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, SIR, WHEN YOU RESPONDED TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY, IN WHAT CAPACITY WERE YOU RESPONDING TO THAT SCENE?
A I WAS A DETECTIVE THAT WAS TO INVESTIGATE THE HOMICIDE.
Q THE -- YOU WERE TO BE THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER?
A YES.
Q THEN WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO HAVE TRANSPIRED BY THE TIME YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE?
A I EXPECTED THE SCENE TO BE SECURED, DEATH TO BE PRONOUNCED TO THE VICTIMS, THE OFFICER TO SECURE THE LOCATION, PROTECT THE EVIDENCE, TO MAKE MENTAL NOTES OF WHERE CERTAIN THINGS WERE AND TO HELP ASSIST ME IN FINDING A PATH INTO THE -- A SCENE -- EXCUSE ME -- INTO THE SCENE.
Q OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY "HELP ASSIST ME IN FINDING A PATH INTO THE SCENE," WHAT DID YOU MEAN?
A THE EASIEST ROUTE TO DISTURB THE LEAST AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE SO THE SCENE CAN BE INVESTIGATED.
Q THEN I TAKE IT, WAS IT YOUR EXPECTATION, SIR, THAT SOMEONE, AT LEAST ONE OFFICER WOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE AND EXAMINED THE EVIDENCE AS IT LAY -- THE BODIES AS THEY LAY AND LOOKED AROUND IN GENERAL?
A YES. THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT TO FIND OUT THEIR CONDITION.
Q UH-HUH.
WAS IT -- DID YOU EXPECT -- DID YOU HAVE ANY EXPECTATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE IMMEDIATE CRIME SCENE AREA WOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKED THROUGH FOR SUSPECTS?
A IT WOULD HAVE TO BE.
Q AND DID YOU HAVE ANY EXPECTATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE AREA, THE IMMEDIATE CRIME SCENE AREA WOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKED THROUGH FOR WEAPONS?
A I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN, YES.
Q AND THEN OF COURSE, FOR -- WAS IT ALSO YOUR EXPECTATION THAT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE ALREADY -- AT LEAST ONE OFFICER, IF NOT SEVERAL, WOULD HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE TO LOOK AND SEE WHERE THE EVIDENCE WAS AND WHAT IT WAS?
A YES.
Q NOW, KNOWING THE POSSIBLE IDENTITY OF THE -- ONE OF THE VICTIMS, SIR, DID YOU HAVE ANY EXPECTATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE WOULD BE ANY HIGH-RANKING POLICE OFFICERS ALREADY AT THE SCENE OR COMING TO THE SCENE?
A I WOULD ASSUME THAT THERE WOULD BE A CAPTAIN THAT PROBABLY ARRIVED AT LEAST. OF COURSE, THAT HAPPENS WITH QUITE A FEW HOMICIDES. BUT I EXPECTED TO SEE SOME COMMAND OFFICERS, YES.
Q AND WAS THAT -- WHY WOULD YOU EXPECT THAT BASED ON THE IDENTITY, POSSIBLE IDENTITY OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS?
A I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE JUST THAT. I THINK A DOUBLE HOMICIDE WOULD PROBABLY -- I WOULD ABSOLUTELY BE FOR SURE THAT THE DETECTIVES' CO, COMMANDING OFFICER, WOULD ARRIVE, MAYBE THE AREA CO, CAPTAIN.
Q WHAT'S AREA CO? I AM SORRY.
A THE AREA COMMANDING OFFICER. IN OTHER WORDS, THE WEST L.A. COMMANDING OFFICER. MAYBE THE OFFICER OF THE DAY, WHICH COULD BE A CAPTAIN OR COMMANDER AND QUITE POSSIBLY MAYBE EVEN A DEPUTY CHIEF.
Q OKAY. SO IS A DOUBLE HOMICIDE UNUSUAL IN YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS IN WEST L.A.?
A I WOULD SAY SO, YES.
Q OKAY. SO BASED ON THAT ALONE, YOU EXPECTED TO SEE ALL THAT BRASS THERE?
A WELL, THAT AND THEN COUPLED WITH THE POSSIBLE IDENTITY OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS, I WOULD GUESS THAT IT WOULD BE HAPPENING, YES.
Q UMM, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU MET WITH OFFICER RISKE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A OFFICER RISKE EXPLAINED WHAT HE HAD FOUND, HOW HE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE. IT WAS A VERY GENERAL DESCRIPTION AT THAT POINT.
HE GAVE AN INDICATION THAT HE RECEIVED A CALL OF A BURGLAR, A POSSIBLE BURGLAR THERE NOW OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT ACROSS THE STREET, AND THEN HE WENT ON TO SAY HOW HE DISCOVERED THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION AND THE BODIES.
Q OKAY. AND DID HE DESCRIBE TO YOU WHAT HE FOUND IN THE CRIME SCENE, SIR?
A YES. HE DESCRIBED IT AS HE SHOWED ME....

Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE SCENE DEPICTED HERE, SIR?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHAT IS THIS SCENE?
A THIS IS THE FRONT OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY LOOKING DUE WEST FROM THE -- PROBABLY THE PARKWAY INTO THE WALKWAY OF THE RESIDENCE. THE FRONT GATE IS OPEN....

Q AND DID YOU HAVE A FLASHLIGHT WITH YOU THAT NIGHT, SIR?
A YES.
Q WHAT KIND OF FLASHLIGHT WAS THAT?
A I HAD A SMALL FLASHLIGHT THAT I HELD ON MY BELT.
Q OKAY. SIZE OF A PEN?
A YES. I BELIEVE TWO DOUBLE A BATTERIES AND ADJUSTABLE HEAD SO YOU COULD MAKE IT A WIDE BEAM OR A VERY NARROW BEAM.
Q AND DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAVE A FLASHLIGHT WITH HIM?
A YES. HE HAD A LARGER FLASHLIGHT I BELIEVE. I'M NOT POSITIVE, BUT I KNOW -- EXCUSE ME.
Q GO AHEAD.
A OFFICER RISKE HAD A LARGE HIGH-POWER FLASHLIGHT WITH HIM.
Q THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION. AND WERE THEY USING THEM?
A OFFICER RISKE WAS USING THE FLASHLIGHT.
Q NOW, WHAT -- IS THERE ANY RULE, SIR, REGARDING CRIME SCENE EXAMINATIONS CONCERNING HOW YOU GET ACCESS TO THEM, WHERE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO, HOW MANY PEOPLE, THAT SORT OF THING?
A WELL, AS FEW AS POSSIBLE. THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST RULE. AND YOU WOULD WANT TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THOSE PEOPLE WITHOUT DESTROYING ANY EVIDENCE.
Q SO WHEN YOU WERE STANDING UP ON THE -- IN THE -- WAS THAT OUT IN THE SHRUBBERY YOU WERE STANDING THERE?
A EXCUSE ME?
Q WERE YOU STANDING ON SHRUBBERY OR GRASS OVER THERE?
A YES. IT WAS SHRUBBERY, PLANTS.
Q DID YOU STEP ON THE WALKWAY?
A NO.
Q WHERE THE BLOOD IS SHOWN HERE?
A NO.
Q DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DO THAT?
A NO.
Q OFFICER RISKE DO THAT?
A NO, NOT THAT I SAW.
Q OKAY. WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT WHERE THE ARROW IS SHOWN?
A WE COULD SEE A FEMALE VICTIM IN A BLACK DRESS LYING AS IS DEPICTED IN THE PHOTO, HEAD TO ALMOST DUE NORTH, FEET ALMOST DUE SOUTH SOMEWHAT FACE DOWN IN A POOL OF BLOOD. IT APPEARED THAT THAT BLOOD WAS FLOWING DOWN THE WALKWAY PREDOMINATELY IN THE CRACKS OF THE TILED WALKWAY.
Q UH-HUH.
THOSE CRACKS -- DO YOU REMEMBER THAT WALKWAY, SIR?
A YES.
Q IS THAT GROUTING RECESSED? IS IT DEEPER OR LOWER THAN THE ACTUAL TILE?
A YES. IT -- I CAN'T RECALL IF IT WAS ACTUAL TILE OR A PRESS THAT THEY PUT INTO THE CONCRETE TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT WAY, BUT THERE WAS RECESSES BETWEEN THE SQUARES.
Q UH-HUH.
WHERE THE GROUTING WAS?
A YES.
Q ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT OTHER THAN THE FEMALE VICTIM?
A WELL, OFFICER RISKE USED HIS FLASHLIGHT TO POINT OUT SEVERAL ITEMS.
Q AND WHAT DID HE POINT OUT TO YOU, SIR?
A HE POINTED OUT THE MALE VICTIM FOR ONE, WHICH WASN'T EASILY SEEN FROM THAT ANGLE....
Q ALL RIGHT, SIR. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS SCENE, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE?
A YES.
Q IS THAT THE CONDITION IN WHICH YOU SAW THE SCENE WHEN YOU RESPONDED ON THE NIGHT OF -- EARLY MORNING HOURS ACTUALLY OF JUNE THE 13TH?
A IT WASN'T THAT WELL LIT, BUT YES, THAT'S HIS POSITION.
Q OKAY. SO IT WAS EVEN DARKER THAN IT SEEMS HERE?
A IT APPEARED TO ME, YES.
Q WERE YOU ABLE TO -- PLEASE DESCRIBE FOR US THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE AS OFFICER RISKE POINTED IT OUT TO YOU.
A THE WHITE ENVELOPE.
Q AS SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES. THE MALE VICTIM.
Q IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW HIM?
A YES. THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, YES.
OFFICER RISKE ALSO USED HIS FLASHLIGHT IN THE -- THE BUSH WITH THE LONG LEAVES AT THE FEET OF THE MALE VICTIM. HE POINTED HIS FLASHLIGHT AND SAID THAT THERE WAS A KNIT CAP AND A GLOVE THERE ALSO.
Q WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THEM?
A I WAS ABLE TO SEE SOMETHING. IT WAS PRETTY HARD TO MAKE OUT EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE FROM THAT ANGLE.
Q OKAY. SO HE JUST TOLD YOU AT THAT POINT?
A WELL, I -- YES.
Q DID YOU MAKE SOME EFFORT TO SEE THE KNIT CAP AND THE GLOVE THAT HE POINTED OUT TO YOU?
A AT THAT TIME, WE ASKED OFFICER RISKE IF THERE WAS ANOTHER WAY WE COULD COME INTO THIS CRIME SCENE.
Q AND WHY WAS THAT, SIR?
A IT WAS -- WE WOULD HAVE TO STEP ONTO THE SIDEWALK WHERE ALL THE BLOOD WAS TO GET INTO THE CRIME SCENE OR TOUCH THE FENCE WHICH WE WERE STANDING NEXT TO TO GET AROUND THAT. WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE. WE PREFERRED TO GO IN ANOTHER WAY IF WE COULD.
Q OKAY. SO WERE YOU TRYING TO GET A BETTER LOOK?
A YES.
Q WITHOUT DISTURBING ANYTHING?
A YES.
Q SO WHAT DID YOU DO?
A WE RETRACED OUR STEPS BACKWARD. WE HAD A DISCUSSION. OFFICER RISKE, SAID, WELL, WE CAN GO IN THROUGH THE ALLEY THROUGH THE BACK OF THE RESIDENCE. WE WERE PLEASED WITH THAT. SO WE WALKED BACK DOWN BUNDY SOUTH AND WEST ON DOROTHY AND THEN TO THE NORTH-SOUTH ALLEY, WHICH WAS TAPED OFF, AND WE APPROACHED THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
Q OKAY. NOW, AS YOU WALKED UP THE GRASSY OR SHRUBBERY AREA WHICH WOULD BE TO THE SOUTH OF THE WALKWAY, THAT'S THE FRONT WALKWAY LEADING FROM THE SIDEWALK UP TO THE FRONT STEPS --
A YES.
Q -- DID YOU OBSERVE THAT WALKWAY AND THE BLOOD THAT WAS ON IT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU LOOK TO SEE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY -- WHETHER THERE WERE ANY SHOEPRINTS ON THAT BLOOD ON THE FRONT WALKWAY?
A THE WALKWAY THAT'S LEADING FROM THE FEMALE VICTIM EASTBOUND?
Q RIGHT.
A I DID NOT SEE ANY.
Q OKAY. DID YOU LOOK ON THE SIDEWALK -- YOU SAID YOU WALKED DOWN THE SIDEWALK SOUTH ON BUNDY AND THEN WEST ON DOROTHY?
A NO. WE WALKED IN THE STREET.
Q OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANYTHING -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. WHY DID YOU WALK IN THE STREET? WHY NOT ON THE SIDEWALK?
A THE BLOOD EMPTIED ONTO THE SIDEWALK AND THERE WAS PAW PRINTS, CANINE PRINTS LEADING SOUTH ON THE SIDEWALK IN THE BLOOD.
Q I AM SORRY?
A THE PAW PRINTS WERE IN BLOOD.
Q BLOODY PAW PRINTS?
A YES.
Q DID YOU FOLLOW THOSE PAW PRINTS AS YOU WALKED DOWN THE STREET?
A THEY HEADED SOUTHBOUND AND THEN DISSIPATED....
Q YOU SAID THAT YOU SAW BLOODY PAW PRINTS GOING SOUTH ON BUNDY?
A YES.
Q OKAY. WHERE DID THEY FADE OUT, IF YOU RECALL?
A IF I REMEMBER, IT WAS JUST ABOUT AT DOROTHY.
Q AND THEN YOU INDICATED YOU WENT WHERE?
A WE WENT WEST ON DOROTHY STREET TO THE OPENING TO THE NORTH-SOUTH ALLEY THAT LED BEHIND 875 SOUTH BUNDY....

Q NOW, WHO WERE YOU WALKING -- I AM SORRY, SIR.
YOU INDICATED THAT YOU LEFT THE AREA RIGHT UP NEXT TO THE MAILBOX, WENT DOWN THE SHRUBBERY AND OUT TO THE STREET. AND WHO WAS WITH YOU AT THAT TIME?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE WHO WAS LEADING.
Q WHEN YOU WENT OUT INTO THE STREET AND WALKED SOUTH ON BUNDY AND WEST ON DOROTHY, WHO WAS WITH YOU?
A OFFICER RISKE IN THE LEAD AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND MYSELF.
Q AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THIS LOCATION, SIR... WHO WAS WITH YOU?...
A OFFICER RISKE WAS IN THE LEAD -- HE WENT UNDER THE TAPE AND SHOWED US WHERE TO WALK -- DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND MYSELF.
Q WAS THERE AN OFFICER GUARDING THIS PERIMETER, SIR, THIS CRIME SCENE TAPE?
A I BELIEVE THERE WAS, BUT IT'S NOT DEPICTED IN THE PHOTO, BUT I BELIEVE THERE WAS SOMEONE THERE, YES.
Q DID YOU ALL GO INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE?
A YES.
Q AND THEN WHERE DID YOU GO?
A WE WENT INTO THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY FOLLOWING OFFICER RISKE....

Q BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECALL THIS SCENE, SIR?
A YES, I DO. THAT'S THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
Q OKAY. AND IS THAT THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU FOUND IT?
A YES....

Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN HERE?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT IS IT?
A IT'S THE OPEN GARAGE OF THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY, A BLACK JEEP CHEROKEE SITTING IN THE DRIVEWAY. JUST TO THE NORTH OF THE CHEROKEE IS THE ENTRANCE TO A WALKWAY THAT LEADS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q OKAY. AND WAS THE GARAGE DOOR OPEN WHEN YOU GOT THERE?
A YES.
Q DID OFFICER RISKE GIVE YOU ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THAT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT THE GARAGE DOOR HAD INITIALLY BEEN OPEN OR CLOSED WHEN HE ARRIVED?
A I DID NOT.
Q NOW, DID HE POINT ANYTHING OUT TO YOU AT THAT TIME AROUND THE AREA OF THAT VEHICLE?
A NOT AT THAT TIME.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A WE FOLLOWED HIM THROUGH THE GARAGE PAST THE WHITE FERRARI AND IN --
Q YOU DESCRIBED THE WHITE FERRARI IN THE PAST TWO PHOTOGRAPHS. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WAS SHOWN?
A YES.
Q WAS THAT THE FERRARI YOU REFERRED TO?
A YES.
Q NOW, THE AREA TO THE RIGHT OF THE FERRARI IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT AS A PATH THAT YOU TOOK?
A YES. I BELIEVE THAT'S THE PATH THAT LEADS TO THE DOOR THAT LEADS INTO THE BOTTOM REAR OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q OKAY. AND WHO LED THE WAY?
A OFFICER RISKE.
Q WHEN YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE, SIR, WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A I ENTERED THE OPEN DOOR OF THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE. OFFICER RISKE POINTED OUT SOME ICE CREAM THAT WAS ON THE BANISTER AT THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS.
Q UH-HUH. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT ICE CREAM, SIR?
A BEN AND JERRY'S. I'D PROBABLY SAY A MEDIUM SIZE CUP.
Q WHAT DID THE ICE CREAM LOOK LIKE?
A TAN COLOR, LUMPY.
Q OKAY. AND NEXT?
A WE WALKED UP THE STAIRS THAT WERE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THAT DOOR WHICH LED INTO A WALKWAY WHICH PASSED THE KITCHEN ON THE NORTH, A SOLID WALL ON THE RIGHT WHERE I BELIEVE THE TELEPHONE WAS AND SOME PICTURES WHICH LED INTO A LIVING ROOM AREA WITH AN OPEN FRONT DOOR AND A DINING ROOM AREA TO THE LEFT OR NORTH.
Q DURING THAT FIRST WALK THROUGH, SIR, DID YOU LOOK TO SEE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY OBVIOUS SIGNS OF DISTURBANCE OR RANSACKING OR STRUGGLE?
A I LOOKED, BUT I DIDN'T SEE ANY.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY -- ANYTHING LIKE DRAWERS PULLED OUT OR PROPERTY OR ITEMS THROWN AROUND?
A NO. IT WAS VERY NEAT, VERY CLEAN, STERILE ALMOST.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?
A NO.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD SMEARS ON THE WALLS?
A NO.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY HOLES IN THE WALL?
A NO.
Q BROKEN FURNITURE?
A NO.
Q SPILLED PURSES?
A NO.
Q SPILLED JEWELRY?
A NO.
Q NOW, YOU MENTIONED EARLIER SOMETHING ABOUT ROBBERY, WORKING ROBBERIES. DID YOU EVER WORK ANY BURGLARY CASES?
A YES.
Q THROUGHOUT THE COURSE -- YOU'VE BEEN ON THE POLICE FORCE HOW LONG NOW?
A 19 YEARS, SIX MONTHS.
Q AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, SIR, HOW MANY BURGLARY CASES APPROXIMATELY OR RESIDENTIAL ROBBERY CASES HAVE YOU WORKED?
A AS FAR AS BOTH PATROL AND DETECTIVE?
Q RIGHT.
A THAT WOULD BE IN THE HUNDREDS.
Q YOU'VE SEEN EVIDENCE OF RANSACKING IN EACH OF THOSE CASES, SIR?
A NOT EACH, BUT IT'S A PREDOMINANT M.O. FACTOR ON A BURGLARY.
Q DID YOU OBSERVE ANYTHING INSIDE THIS HOUSE THAT LOOKED CONSISTENT WITH RANSACKING OR BURGLARY?
A NO....

Q OKAY. AFTER YOU GOT TO THE LIVING ROOM, THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
A OFFICER RISKE WAS DIRECTING US AND SEEING THAT -- I CAN'T RECALL IF HE SAID THAT THE DOOR WAS WIDE OPEN, BUT IT WAS AT THIS POINT.
HE WALKED US ONTO THE LANDING, AND AS HE WALKED ONTO THE LANDING, HE SHINED HIS FLASHLIGHT ON HEEL PRINTS, FOOTPRINTS, SHOEPRINTS IN BLOOD AND POINTED OUT AT LEAST ONE DROP OF BLOOD TO THE LEFT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DIDN'T STEP IN THAT AREA.
Q OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY THE DOOR, WHICH DOOR ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
A THE FRONT DOOR.
Q AND WHEN YOU GOT TO IT WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, IT WAS WIDE OPEN?
A YES....

Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU SEE THERE, SIR? DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?
A I RECOGNIZE THE PHOTO, YES.
Q OKAY. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT VANTAGE POINT THAT'S TAKEN FROM?
A IT APPEARS THAT IT'S TAKEN FROM THE LANDING THAT YOU WOULD WALK OUT ONTO FROM THE FRONT DOOR. LOOKING DOWN ON THE FEMALE VICTIM, YOU WOULD BE LOOKING IN A NORTH -- NORTHEASTERLY DIRECTION.
Q DOES THIS DESCRIBE WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE? THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS PRETTY DARK, BUT WERE YOU ABLE TO GET THIS VIEW OF THE BODIES AND THE EVIDENCE FROM WHERE YOU WERE STANDING AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE?
A YES.
Q WERE THEY USING THEIR FLASHLIGHTS AT THE TIME, SIR?
A EXCUSE ME?
Q WERE THEY USING THEIR FLASHLIGHTS AT THE TIME?
A OFFICER RISKE WAS. HE WAS USING HIS TO POINT OUT ANY EVIDENCE OR ANYTHING OF VALUE THAT HE WANTED TO SHOW US.
Q OKAY. AND IS THAT -- WHO'S THAT MAN IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THERE POINTING TO THE BUSH?

Q CAN YOU SEE, SIR -- CAN YOU SEE, SIR, WHAT IS LOCATED UNDERNEATH THE BUSH?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT IS IT?
A THE FOREMOST IN THE PICTURE IS A GLOVE AND ABOVE IT APPEARS TO BE A DARK BLUE KNIT CAP.
Q NOW, WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU SAW THOSE TWO ITEMS IN PARTICULAR THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO DETECT WHAT THEY WERE?
A FROM THAT LANDING, OFFICER RISKE SHINED HIS LIGHT ON THOSE ONCE AGAIN SHOWING SEVERAL OBJECTS THAT HE HAD PREVIOUSLY SEEN.
Q OKAY. AND IT -- WAS HE THE ONE WHO POINTED OUT THE GLOVE AND THE CAP UNDERNEATH THE BUSH TO YOU?
A YES.
Q WHAT ELSE DID HE POINT OUT, SIR?
A I BELIEVE HE POINTED OUT A WHITE ENVELOPE THAT WAS JUST SOUTH OF THE MALE VICTIM CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK. HE POINTED OUT A -- HE POINTED OUT A PAGER.
I BELIEVE I OBSERVED A MENU BELOW THE FEMALE VICTIM. I'M NOT SURE IF I DETERMINED IT WAS A MENU AT THAT POINT, BUT I SAW SOMETHING. AND HE MADE A POINT TO SHOW US HEEL PRINTS AND SHOEPRINTS THAT APPEARED TO BE IMPRINTED IN BLOOD THAT WERE LEADING WESTBOUND FROM THAT SCENE.
Q DID YOU AT THAT TIME NOTICE ANY SHOEPRINT NEAR THE EVIDENCE OF THE HAT AND THE GLOVE?
A YES. I SAW A SHOEPRINT, BUT IT WAS A GOOD DISTANCE FROM ME AT THAT POINT.
Q SO AT THAT TIME, WERE YOU ABLE TO DETECT ANY SHOEPRINTS NEAR THE EVIDENCE OF THE HAT AND THE GLOVE?
A IT APPEARED TO BE THAT THERE WAS A SHOEPRINT THERE, BUT I WASN'T VERY CLOSE TO IT.
Q IN ORDER TO SEE, TO DISCERN WHAT THOSE ITEMS WERE UNDERNEATH THE BUSH, WAS IT NECESSARY TO USE THE LIGHT OF THE FLASHLIGHT?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS. IT CERTAINLY AIDED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND MYSELF TO SEE THOSE ITEMS....

Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, SIR?
A I BELIEVE IT'S THE WHITE ENVELOPE I OBSERVED THAT MORNING.
Q NOW, EARLIER YOU SAID HEEL PRINT BETWEEN THE -- I MEAN HEEL PRINT IN BLOOD, BLOODY HEEL PRINT NEAR THE EVIDENCE OF THE HAT AND THE GLOVE. DO YOU MEAN HEEL PRINT BY A SHOE OR BARE FOOT?
A BY A SHOE.
Q BARE FOOT. ALL RIGHT. AFTER POINTING OUT THE EVIDENCE YOU DESCRIBED, SIR, YOU SAID OFFICER RISKE POINTED THAT EVIDENCE OUT, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A HE POINTED AT THE DIRECTION THAT THE SHOEPRINTS THAT APPEARED TO BE IN THE BLOOD OF ONE OR BOTH OF THE VICTIMS WAS MARKING ITSELF ONTO THE SIDEWALK AND LEADING WESTBOUND. HE ALSO POINTED OUT SEVERAL DROPS OF BLOOD TO THE LEFT OF THOSE FOOTPRINTS....

Q BY MS. CLARK: ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANYTHING --
WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A I BELIEVE THIS IS THE WALKWAY -- YES. AND THIS IS THE WALKWAY LEADING WEST ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE AWAY FROM THE LANDING THAT WE WERE JUST VIEWING FROM VIEWING THE FEMALE VICTIM.
Q OKAY. IS THIS THE WALKWAY THAT LEADS OUT TO THE REAR ALLEY?
A YES.
Q TELL US WHAT ELSE YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH.
A I SEE SHOEPRINTS THAT APPEAR TO BE DARK AND IMPRINTED IN WHAT I BELIEVED TO BE BLOOD THAT MORNING POINTING WESTBOUND....

Q THEN YOU INDICATED THAT YOU SAW BLOOD DROPS TO THE LEFT OF THOSE SHOEPRINTS?
A YES. A FEW.
Q DID SOMEONE POINT THOSE OUT TO YOU, SIR?
A YES.
Q AND WHO WAS THAT?
A OFFICER RISKE....
 

Q BY MS. CLARK: WHILE HE'S PRINTING, SIR, LET ME ASK YOU A COUPLE QUESTIONS.
YOU SAID YOU CAME OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND STOOD ON THE LANDING WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE AS OFFICER RISKE POINTED IT OUT WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU GET ANY CLOSER TO THE BODIES THAN THAT?
A NO.
Q YOU STAYED UP ON THE LANDING DID YOU?
A YES, I DID.
Q EVER GO DOWN THE STAIRS AND STEP INTO THE CRIME SCENE OR STEP OVER THE BODY OF NICOLE BROWN?
A LATER THAT MORNING AFTER I RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM, YES.
Q NO, BUT I MEAN AT THIS TIME.
A AT THIS TIME, NO.
Q AND SO WHAT IS THE CLOSEST THAT YOU GOT TO THE BODIES OF RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN AT THAT TIME, 2:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING?
A STANDING ABOVE THEM ON THE TOP OF THE LANDING....
Q ...NOW, YOU INDICATED EARLIER, SIR, THAT OFFICER RISKE POINTED OUT BLOODY SHOEPRINTS TO YOU?
A YES....

Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE ANY OTHER BLOODY SHOEPRINTS IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?
A I CAN NOT.
Q OKAY. DID YOU WALK WITH OFFICER RISKE THEN TOWARDS THE ALLEY DOWN THE WALKWAY?
A YES. HE DIRECTED US TO WALK TO THE RIGHT OF THE PRINTS AND YES, WE WALKED TO THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q AS YOU -- AS YOU ALL WALKED, DID OFFICER RISKE LEAD YOU?
A YES.
Q AND WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WITH YOU AS WELL?
A HE WAS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF ME, YES.
Q DID YOU -- WAS HE -- DID OFFICER RISKE WARN YOU WHERE TO STAY AWAY FROM AS YOU WALKED DOWN THE WALKWAY TOWARDS THE ALLEY?
A YES.

Q AND DID YOU AVOID STEPPING IN ANY OF THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OR BLOOD DROPS?
A YES.
Q AT SOME POINT GOING WESTBOUND ON THAT WALKWAY, SIR, DID THE SHOEPRINTS FADE OUT?
A YES, THEY DID.
Q AT WHAT POINT?
A IT SEEMS BEFORE WE ENTERED INTO A STEP-DOWN AREA INTO A TROTH. I SAY TROTH. IT'S AN AREA THAT YOU STEP FOUR OR FIVE STEPS DOWN INTO AN AREA THAT LEVELS OFF FOR SEVERAL FEET, THEN STEPS LEAD UP ONCE AGAIN AND LEADS TO THE REAR GATE OF THE RESIDENCE ON THAT PATHWAY TO THE ALLEY.
Q BY THE TIME YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE THAT LEADS OUT INTO THE ALLEY, SIR, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY MORE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?
A I DID NOT, NO.
Q AS YOU WERE WALKING WESTBOUND IN THE ALLEY, WERE YOU FOLLOWING THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS, THE PATH THAT THEY TOOK?
A I WAS FOLLOWING OFFICER RISKE AND HE WAS POINTING OUT THINGS THAT WE SHOULD NOTE, AND I SAW THEM FADE AT A CERTAIN POINT.
Q DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTE HOW MANY BLOOD DROPS TO THE LEFT OF THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS YOU SAW BETWEEN THE LANDING AND THE REAR GATE?
A I DIDN'T COUNT THEM. I WOULD SAY SEVERAL, BUT I DIDN'T COUNT THEM AND I NEVER WENT BACK TO COUNT THEM. SO I COULDN'T SAY ANYTHING MORE THAN SEVERAL.
Q YOU DON'T -- DO YOU HAVE A PRESENT RECOLLECTION OF THAT, HOW MANY?
A THREE TO SEVEN, THREE TO FIVE.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE AREA, DID YOU MAKE ANY OBSERVATIONS THERE?
A OFFICER RISKE POINTED OUT SOME BLOOD ON THE GATE, SOME SMUDGING ON THE UPPER RAIL OF THE GATE. I NOTICED SOME BLOOD DROPPING ON THE CENTER OF THE GATE, THE MESH PART OF THE GATE.... THERE APPEARED TO BE EVIDENCE OF BLOOD ON THE BOTTOM RUNG OF THE GATE. I NOTICED A BLOOD SMUDGE AROUND THE DOOR TURN KNOB LOCK ON THE INTERIOR OR THE EAST SIDE OF THE GATE....

Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?
A YES.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A THIS IS THIS TROTH AREA THAT I WAS DESCRIBING AND THESE ARE THE STEPS LEADING OUT OF IT WESTBOUND UP TO THE REAR GATE, WHICH IN THIS PICTURE IS OPEN.
Q OKAY.
AND IS THAT THE REAR GATE WHERE YOU JUST DESCRIBED SEEING THE BLOOD DROPPING ON THE LOWER REAR -- LOWER RUNG AND THE MIDDLE AND THEN THE SMUDGE ON THE LATCH?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT ELSE WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ON THAT GATE, SIR?
A NOT AT THAT TIME, BUT LATER, I SAW A PARTIAL POSSIBLE FINGERPRINT THAT WAS ON THAT KNOB AREA.
Q DID YOU THEN WALK THROUGH THE REAR GATE, SIR, WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU -- DID HE POINT ANYTHING OUT TO YOU IN THAT REAR DRIVEWAY?
A YES. THERE WAS OTHER BLOOD DROPS AND CHANGE THAT WAS STREWN ON THE DRIVEWAY TO THE NORTH OF THE JEEP.
Q WAS THERE SOME EFFORT MADE BY YOURSELF, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE TO AVOID TOUCHING THE BLOOD ON THE REAR GATE?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO? HOW DID YOU AVOID IT?
A EITHER KEEP YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS OR KEEP YOUR HANDS ON YOUR NOTEBOOK AND YOU DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING.
Q WAS THE REAR GATE STANDING OPEN WHEN YOU GOT TO IT?
A IT WAS OPEN.
Q DO YOU RECALL OFFICER RISKE POINTING OUT A BLOOD DROP NEAR -- JUST INSIDE THE REAR GATE?
A I DON'T RECALL THAT, BUT HE COULD HAVE. HE POINTED OUT SEVERAL PIECES OF ITEMS IN THAT FIRST WALK THROUGH.
Q AND IF HE HAD, WOULD YOU HAVE AVOIDED IT, SIR?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHAT IF ANYTHING DO YOU RECALL BEING POINTED OUT TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE OUT AT THE REAR DRIVEWAY AREA?
A THE DROPS OF BLOOD AND THE CHANGE AND HE DID MAKE A COMMENT THAT THEY DIDN'T CONTINUE INTO THE -- INTO THE ALLEY. I WENT INTO THE ALLEY AND OBSERVED THAT FOR MYSELF. I COULDN'T SEE ANY.
Q AND HOW DID YOU LOOK IN THE ALLEY TO LOOK FOR BLOOD DROPS?
A USING A FLASHLIGHT.
Q THE FACT THAT YOU SAW A BLOOD DROP ON THE DRIVEWAY, BUT YOU WERE UNABLE TO OBSERVE ANY IN THE ALLEYWAY, WAS THAT SIGNIFICANT TO YOU?
A YES.
Q WHY?
A I WOULD CONCLUDE THAT THE PERSON EITHER STOPPED BLEEDING OR ENTERED SOME FORM OF TRANSPORTATION....
 

Q BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT, SIR.
PEOPLE'S 48-H AND I, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S DEPICTED IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?
A IT APPEARS TO BE THE SIZE OF BLOOD DROPS THAT I SAW ON THE REAR DRIVEWAY AND THIS APPEARS TO BE THE SMOOTH CONCRETE DRIVEWAY IN THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q IS THAT THE BLOOD DROP THAT WAS POINTED OUT TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED TO US?
A IT LOOKS LIKE MOST OF THE BLOOD DROPS THAT I SAW, YES.
Q AND TO WHAT SIDE -- IF YOU'RE EXITING AS YOU WERE, AS YOU ARE EXITING THE REAR GATE WALKING WEST, COME OUT OF THE REAR GATE, THE JEEP WOULD BE TO WHAT SIDE OF YOU AND THE BLOOD DROP WOULD BE TO WHAT SIDE OF THE JEEP?
A THE BLOOD DROP WOULD BE TO THE RIGHT OF THE JEEP WHICH WOULD BE TO THE NORTH OF THE JEEP AND THE JEEP WOULD BE TO THE LEFT OR THE SOUTH OF THE DROP AND THE --
Q YEAH. OKAY. WAS THE JEEP TO THE SOUTH OF THE REAR GATE AREA?
A YES....

Q BY MS. CLARK: AND -- DO YOU SEE THE JEEP THAT YOU'VE BEEN DESCRIBING TO US, SIR?
A YES. A BLACK JEEP CHEROKEE.
Q AND IS THAT THE POSITION THAT YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU WERE SHOWN THE LOCATION BY OFFICER RISKE IN THE COMPANY OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A YES.
Q DO YOU RECALL THOSE GARBAGE CANS THERE, SIR?
A I THINK THERE WAS SOME THERE. I DON'T RECALL THEIR EXACT DESCRIPTION, BUT I THINK THERE WERE GARBAGE CANS THERE, YES.
Q FROM WHAT YOU RECALL OF THE CRIME SCENE OF THAT AREA THAT NIGHT, WAS THERE ROOM FOR A CAR TO PARK BETWEEN THE BLACK JEEP AND THE GARBAGE CANS?
A I WOULDN'T THINK SO, NO.
Q OR BETWEEN THE BLACK JEEP AND THAT WALL OR CURB THERE?
A I DON'T BELIEVE SO. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY TIGHT.
Q YOU DESCRIBED CHANGE THAT YOU SAW, SIR?
A YES.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHERE IT WAS IN RELATION TO THE JEEP?
A TO THE NORTH OF THE JEEP.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 48-K.
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, SIR?
A THAT'S A DIME AND A PENNY. I BELIEVE THE DENOMINATION OF THE CHANGE THAT I SAW ON THE GROUND WAS I BELIEVE PENNIES, DIMES AND MAYBE A NICKEL.
Q HOW FAR, IF YOU CAN RECALL, APPROXIMATELY WAS THAT CHANGE FROM THE BLOOD DROP THAT YOU SAW IN THE DRIVEWAY?
A IT WAS IN THE SAME GENERAL AREA.
Q AND WERE THERE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS IN THAT DRIVEWAY AREA?
A I DID NOT SEE NONE OR SEE ANY, NO.
Q AFTER YOU WENT OUT INTO THE REAR DRIVEWAY AND ATTEMPTED TO EXAMINE THE ALLEY FOR BLOOD, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A WELL, AT THAT TIME, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE WALKED BACK OUT ONTO DOROTHY AND I REENTERED THE HOUSE TO START CATCHING UP ON THE NOTES FROM WHAT HAD BEEN SHOWN TO ME SO FAR AND WHAT I HAD OBSERVED.
Q OKAY. NOW, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CATCH UP ON THE NOTES?
A WELL, WE WERE WALKING AND I WAS TRYING TO MAKE -- TAKE MENTAL NOTES. AND WHEN I GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING MYSELF UP-TO-DATE WITH THOSE NOTES BEFORE I LOST TRACK OF ANYTHING OFFICER RISKE BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION OR ANYTHING THAT I OBSERVED.
Q NOW, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU CUSTOMARILY DO AT SCENES THAT YOU'RE HANDLING, SIR?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MAKING THOSE NOTES?
A TO START PRELIMINARY NOTES SO I KNOW WHO TO DIRECT AND TO WHERE TO GET MY LOGISTICAL ORGANIZATION SET IN MY MIND, WHAT I'M GOING TO NEED FOR THIS SCENE, WHAT I NEED FOR CRIMINALISTS, SEROLOGISTS, TRACE EVIDENCE, FINGERPRINTS, PHOTOGRAPHS, DO I NEED LIGHT TRUCKS, DO I NEED MORE PERSONNEL, ENLARGE THE SCENE, SHRINK THE SCENE. I HAVE TO CATCH UP WITH I HAVE, WHAT NEEDS TO BE PRESERVED, HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT, HOW DO WE RECOVER IT.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF ITEMS THAT I HAVE TO START THINKING ABOUT FOR NOTIFICATIONS TO GET PEOPLE TO THE LOCATION TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.
Q OKAY. NOW, SO YOU WALKED BACK THROUGH THE HOUSE AGAIN ENTERING THROUGH THAT SAME -- EXCUSE ME. YOU REENTERED THE HOUSE THROUGH THE GARAGE; IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?
A YES.
Q AND WAS THAT THE SAME PATH GOING TO THE RIGHT OF THE FERRARI?
A YES.
Q WHERE DID YOU -- DID YOU GO ALL -- LOOK THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE OR DID YOU WALK STRAIGHT TO THE LIVING ROOM AREA?
A I WALKED TO THE LIVING ROOM AREA. WE HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY SHOWN THE UPSTAIRS AND THE BATHROOM.
Q WHO SHOWED YOU THAT?
A OFFICER RISKE.
Q AND WHEN WAS THAT?
A DURING THE INITIAL WALK THROUGH.
Q OKAY. SO WHEN YOU WENT IN WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE, HE SHOWED YOU THE KITCHEN AREA, DID HE?
A YES. HE DIDN'T -- WE DIDN'T WALK THROUGH THE KITCHEN AREA. WE WALKED TO THE RIGHT OF IT. HE SHOWED US -- HE JUST TOOK US UPSTAIRS AND SAID THERE WAS -- SHOWED US CANDLES BURNING IN THE BATH ROOM. THERE WAS CANDLES BURNING IN THE LIVING ROOM.
Q OKAY. AND DID YOU NOTICE UPSTAIRS WHAT THE CONDITION OF THE MASTER BEDROOM WAS?
A THERE WAS NOTHING DISTURBED THAT I SAW.
Q OKAY. BY DISTURBED, DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF BLOOD?
A NO.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF DRAWERS PULLED OUT?
A NO.
Q SEE JEWELRY THROWN AROUND?
A NO.
Q SEE CLOTHES THROWN AROUND?
A NO.
Q DID YOU SEE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS ON THE CARPETING?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q AND IN THE BATHROOM, DID YOU SEE ANY OF THOSE THINGS?
A NO.
Q DID YOU LOOK INTO ANY OTHER ROOMS UPSTAIRS?
A IF WE DID, WE DIDN'T ENTER THEM. WE JUST LOOKED INSIDE. THERE DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE ANYTHING THAT OFFICER RISKE HAD DISCOVERED EARLIER AND THERE DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE ANYTHING THAT WE NOTED.
Q ANYTHING?
A OF ANY UNUSUAL OR EVIDENTIARY VALUE, NOTHING THAT WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE EXTERIOR.
Q OKAY.
WHEN YOU SAY NOTHING THAT WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE EXTERIOR, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT, SIR?
A THERE WAS A LOT OF BLOOD EVIDENCE ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOUSE. SOMEONE HAD FLED THE SCENE THAT WAS BLEEDING. WE HAD TWO VICTIMS THAT HAD BLED QUITE A LOT.

Q AND DID YOU SEE ANY OF THAT KIND OF BLOOD OR BLEEDING INSIDE THE HOUSE?
A NOT AT ALL.
Q ANY DIRT THAT APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN TRACKED INSIDE FROM OUTSIDE THE HOUSE?
A NOT THAT I SAW, NO.
Q OR LEAVES FROM THE FOLIAGE AROUND THE CRIME SCENE OUTSIDE THE HOUSE, DID YOU SEE THAT TRACKED INSIDE?
A NO. NO.
Q SO WHEN YOU WENT BACK INSIDE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE WENT OUT ONTO DOROTHY, DID YOU WALK STRAIGHT THROUGH AND SIT DOWN IN THE LIVING ROOM?
A YES. I SAT DOWN ON THE EDGE OF THE COUCH NEAREST THE RIGHT SIDE OR THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE FRONT DOOR.
Q OKAY. SO WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF GOING BACK INSIDE? WAS THAT TO DO ANOTHER SEARCH?
A NO. I WANTED TO CATCH UP ON MY NOTES WHEN EVERYTHING WAS FRESH RIGHT THEN....

Q BY MS. CLARK: FIRST OF ALL, SIR, I'M GOING TO SHOW TO YOU AND ASK YOU TO TELL ME IF THESE APPEAR TO BE THE NOTES YOU TOOK IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF FEBRUARY -- EXCUSE ME -- JUNE THE 13TH, 1994 AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
A THOSE ARE MY NOTES, YES....

Q OKAY. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT WRITING, SIR?
A YES, THIS IS MY WRITING.
Q THAT'S YOUR -- ARE THESE THE NOTES YOU JUST IDENTIFIED FOR US, SIR?
A EXCUSE ME?
Q ARE THOSE THE NOTES THAT YOU'VE JUST IDENTIFIED AS HAVING TAKEN ON THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU SAY THEY'RE BEGINNING AT THE SCENE 2:10 HOURS, IS THAT 2:10 IN THE MORNING, SIR?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT DO YOU -- WHAT IS IT YOU'RE TELLING US THERE?
A I'M JUST MAKING A NOTATION MY ARRIVAL AT THE SCENE WAS AT 0210 HOURS AND I CONTACTED SERGEANT ROSSI AS THE MORNING WATCH OR A.M. WATCH COMMANDER AT WEST L.A.
Q AND THEN YOU PUT ITEM 1, OFFICER RISKE. AND IS THAT WHAT OFFICER RISKE REPORTED TO YOU, SIR, IN THAT FIRST ITEM?
A THAT'S WHAT I CONCLUDED. IN OTHER WORDS, A CONDENSED VERSION, YES.
Q NOW, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THESE NOTES? IS THIS A FORMAL REPORT THAT YOU'RE MAKING, SIR?

A NO. I MAKE NOTES LIKE THIS AND I USE A NUMERAL ON EACH ITEM AND THEN I CAN TAKE THAT NUMERAL AND TITLE A PAGE AND WRITE ABOUT THAT SUBJECT AND THEN I CAN GO BACK TO IT WITHOUT CONFUSING MYSELF.
Q OKAY. HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THESE IN TERMS OF FORMAL OR ROUGH NOTES?
A I'D CHARACTERIZE THESE AS MY FIRST IMPRESSION OR MY ROUGH NOTES.
Q AND WITH RESPECT TO ITEM 2, WAS THAT INFORMATION PASSED ON TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?
A YES.
Q NOW, AGAIN, WITH RESPECT TO ITEM 3 --
A YES.
Q -- IS THAT WHAT WAS PASSED ONTO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?
A YES.
Q AT THE TIME THAT YOU RESPONDED TO THE SCENE, SIR, AT 2:10 A.M., DID YOU KNOW WHAT THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS?
A NO.
Q DID OFFICER RISKE KNOW WHAT THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS?
A NO.
Q YOU HAVE THE LAST LINE OF PARAGRAPH 3, POSS GSW.
A YES.
Q CAN YOU INTERPRET FOR US WHAT THAT MEANS?
A IT MEANS POSSIBLE GUNSHOT WOUND....
Q AND ITEM 4, YOU INDICATE HERE THAT THE RESIDENCE APPEARS UNTOUCHED, NO RANSACKING?

A THOSE ARE MY OBSERVATIONS.

Q UH-HUH. AND IS THAT BASICALLY WHAT YOU'VE CONVEYED TO US HERE TODAY?

A YES, IT IS.

Q WAS THAT SIGNIFICANT TO YOU, SIR?
A I BELIEVE IT APPEARED WHATEVER HAPPENED WAS -- HAPPENED TO WHOEVER WAS INSIDE THE RESIDENCE DID NOT EXPECT TOBE ENCOUNTERED IN ANY FORM OF CONFRONTATION.

Q UH-HUH. AND WHAT ABOUT WITH RESPECT TO WHETHER THE KILLER WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE AT ANY POINT AFTER THE MURDERS?
A I BELIEVE ITEMS 3 AND MAYBE 4 WOULD INDICATE THAT THEY DID NOT....

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MARCH 10, 1995
9:09 A.M....
 

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU PLEASE RESUME THE WITNESS STAND....

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MS. CLARK:
Q WHEN WE LEFT OFF, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE WRITING NOTES, ON THE LIVING ROOM COUCH, INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A YES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
NOW, BEFORE YOU BEGAN -- YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE AT A POINT TO SIT DOWN AND WRITE YOUR NOTES, WAS THERE ANY POINT YOU WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE UP UNTIL THAT TIME THAT YOU WERE ALONE?
A NO.
Q WHO WERE YOU WITH FROM THE MOMENT YOU ARRIVED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY WITH -- IN THE COMPANY OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IN HIS CAR, WHO WERE YOU WITH?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q OKAY. AFTER -- WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY WHO DID YOU MEET?
A SERGEANT ROSSI AND OFFICER RISKE.
Q OKAY.
WHO WAS IT THAT TOOK YOU UP TO -- UP THROUGH THE SHRUBBERY UP THE FRONT WALKWAY TO LOOK AT THE CRIME SCENE?
A OFFICER RISKE.
Q WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WITH YOU AS WELL?
A YES.
Q AND AFTER THAT POINT YOU WENT -- I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED YOU WENT AROUND THROUGH THE BACK AND ENTERED THROUGH THE GARAGE; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND WHEN YOU DID SO, WHO WAS WITH YOU?
A OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q AND AS YOU WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE AND STEPPED DOWN ON THE LANDING TO LOOK AT THE CRIME SCENE, WHO WAS WITH YOU?
A OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q AND WHEN YOU STEPPED OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND WALKED DOWN THE WALKWAY FOLLOWING THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OUT TO THE ALLEY, WHO WAS WITH YOU?
A OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q AND WHEN YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE AND WENT OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY AND OBSERVED THE BLOOD DROP AND THE CHANGE, WHO WAS WITH YOU?
A OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO RE-ENTER THE LOCATION, TO RE-ENTER THE CONDOMINIUM, WHERE DID OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GO?
A I BELIEVE THEY WALKED BACK TO DOROTHY.
Q OKAY. AT THAT POINT HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN AT THE CRIME SCENE?
A MAYBE FIFTEEN MINUTES AT THE MOST.
Q OKAY. AND WHAT WERE YOU WEARING AT THAT TIME?
A A BLUE BLAZER, TAN SLACKS, WHITE SHIRT.
Q OKAY. YOU THEN WENT INTO THE CONDOMINIUM; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO TO?
A THE COUCH DIRECTLY TO THE RIGHT OR THE SOUTH OF THE FRONT DOOR.
Q WHEN YOU SAT ON THAT COUCH, WAS THE FRONT DOOR OPEN, SIR?
A YES.
Q WAS THERE ANYONE OUTSIDE THE LOCATION ON THE LANDING AT THAT TIME?
A NO.
Q AND WHEN YOU SAT DOWN TO BEGIN WRITING YOUR NOTES, WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU WERE SEPARATED FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE?
A YES.
Q AND AT THAT POINT HAD THE GLOVE AND THE CAP UNDERNEATH THE BUSH ALREADY BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU FROM THE FRONT GATE AREA AND THEN AGAIN FROM THE LANDING AREA OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR BY OFFICER RISKE?
A YES....

Q NOW, THESE NOTES, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WERE THESE MEANT TO BE YOUR FINAL AND DEFINITIVE NOTE AS THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER AT THAT TIME FOR THIS CRIME SCENE?
A NO. THIS WAS THE FIRST ROUND OF NOTES.
Q OKAY.
AND WHEN YOU SAY "THE FIRST ROUND OF NOTES," SIR, CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT?
A MOST OF THESE NOTES WERE WHAT
OFFICER RISKE WAS POINTING OUT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND MYSELF, AND WHAT I OBSERVED.
Q WHAT DID YOU INTEND TO DO -- WERE THESE NOTES ROUGH NOTES?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU INTEND TO DO WITH THESE NOTES LATER ON?

A USED THEM TO GO BACK TO THESE AREAS AND USE THEM AS A GUIDE IN WHAT TO GO BACK TO AND PRIORITIZE THEM.
Q OKAY.
I THINK YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT THE ITEM NUMBERS THAT YOU HAVE ON THIS LIST, 1, 2, 3, 4, ET CETERA, THAT EACH NUMBER WOULD BE REFERENCED LATER ON IN A MORE FULL DETAILED REPORT?
A YES.
Q AND HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT? WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
A WELL, TAKING NOTES AT THE SCENE, IF IT WOULD HAVE GONE BEYOND THIS POINT, I WOULD HAVE, AS AN EXAMPLE, ITEM 3, I WOULD HAVE PUT AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. I WOULD HAVE WROTE ANY NOTES I WANTED ABOUT ITEM 3.
IF IT WAS THREE PAGES, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PAGE 1, 2, 3, AND AT THE BOTTOM, AND THEN I WOULD KNOW THAT THAT WAS THAT OBSERVATION OR THAT POINT THAT OFFICER RISKE POINTED OUT AND I WOULD BE ABLE TO ORGANIZE IT SOMEWHAT LIKE THAT....

Q BUT YOUR OBSERVATIONS, SIR, CONCERNING WHAT YOU -- WELL, YOUR DESCRIPTION OF WHAT YOU WOULD DO WITH THESE ITEMS, DOES THAT PERTAIN TO ALL OF THE ITEMS ON THE NOTES THAT WE ARE GOING THROUGH NOW?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU BRIEFLY WENT UPSTAIRS AND SAW THE BEDROOMS YESTERDAY.
DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU SEE ROOMS THAT APPEARED TO BE CHILDREN'S ROOMS?
A I DID, BUT I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.
Q DID YOU KNOW WHAT -- DID YOU ASK WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CHILDREN OR WHERE THEY WERE OR DID YOU KNOW ALREADY?
A OFFICER RISKE INFORMED ME THAT THERE WERE TWO CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE AND THEY HAD BEEN TAKEN TO WEST L.A. STATION.
Q SO BY THE TIME YOU GOT THERE YOU KNEW THEY WERE ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF?
A YES.
Q AND DID HE TELL YOU THAT AS SOON AS YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS THE INITIAL EXPLANATION OF WHAT HAD TRANSPIRED BEFORE WE WALKED IN THE SCENE, YES.
Q NOW, WAS OFFICER RISKE THE ONLY ONE THAT POINTED THINGS OUT TO YOU, SIR, OR WERE THERE OTHER OFFICERS THAT POINTED THINGS OUT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A JUST OFFICER RISKE.
Q SO YOU SAT DOWN AND YOU BEGAN TO WRITE THESE NOTES ON THE LIVING ROOM COUCH AND I THINK WE LEFT OFF AT 4.
AND YOU WERE DISCUSSING WITH US, SIR, THE FACT THAT YOU SAW NO EVIDENCE OF RANSACKING?
A YES.
Q WAS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU?
A YES.
Q AND TELL US WHY.
A INITIALLY I WAS CONCERNED THAT POSSIBLY THE HOUSE WAS PART OF THE CRIME SCENE AND I WAS LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE THAT WOULD GIVE ME ANY INDICATION OF THAT.
Q AND DID YOU FIND ANY?
A NO, NOT IN THE FIRST WALK THROUGH.
Q NOW, YOU FOUND "THE STEREO WAS PLAYING AND THE LIGHTS WERE LOW, THE CANDLES WERE LIT IN THE LIVING ROOM AND IN THE UPSTAIRS BATHROOM" ACCORDING TO YOUR NOTES?
A YES.
Q DID THAT INDICATE TO YOU ANYTHING TO YOU IN TERMS OF INFORMATION USEFUL TO THE INVESTIGATION OF THESE MURDERS?
A AT THAT POINT I WOULD CONCLUDE THAT SOMEONE WAS HOME AT THAT TIME AND SOMEONE WAS PREPARING POSSIBLY TO TAKE A BATH, SOMEONE WAS LISTENING TO MUSIC....

Q ALL RIGHT.
SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 80, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS SINCE JUNE 13TH, BUT THAT LOOKS ABOUT THE SAME LOCATION. I CAN'T TELL WHAT THE WRITING IS, BUT THAT APPEARS TO BE WHAT I SAW AT HER FEET, YES.
Q OKAY.
DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE WHAT YOU WERE ATTEMPTING TO DESCRIBE IN ITEM 5 OF YOUR NOTES?
A YES.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.
Q OKAY. ITEM 6, THAT WAS THE ICE CREAM THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING?
A YES.
Q YOU INDICATE IN THIS THAT IT SAYS, "NOT YET MELTED WHEN OFFICER RISKE ENTERED THE RESIDENCE"?
A YES.
Q OKAY. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS TOLD TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT WAS IT THAT HE INDICATED TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO THE CONDITION OF THAT ICE CREAM THAT YOU OBSERVED?
A THE BEST I CAN REMEMBER IT WAS JUST THAT IT APPEARED THAT IT HADN'T MELTED YET OR IT WAS IN THE PROCESS, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW HE WOULD HAVE CONCLUDED THAT.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU SAW THE ICE CREAM TWO HOURS LATER, YOU EARLIER INDICATED TO US THAT IT STILL LOOKED LUMPY TO YOU?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT COLOR DID IT APPEAR TO BE?
A TAN, LIGHT BROWN.
Q DID THAT ICE CREAM HAVE ANY PARTICULAR EVIDENTIARY SIGNIFICANCE TO YOU?
A ONLY IN THAT THE HOUSE WAS SO NEAT, IT SEEMED TO BE THE ONLY ITEM OF FOOD OR ANYTHING THAT LOOKED -- THAT I WOULD SAY LOOKED OUT OF PLACE, BEING AN INTRUDER INTO THE HOUSE, IN OTHER WORDS, NEVER BEING IN THE HOUSE BEFORE.
Q YOU BEING THE INTRUDER THAT IS?
A YES. YES, MA'AM.
Q OKAY.
ITEM 7, "CHILDREN, TWO, SLEEPING IN UPSTAIRS BEDROOM AWOKEN BY OFFICERS."
WAS THAT INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU BY ANOTHER OFFICER?
A YES.
Q BY?
A OFFICER RISKE....

Q OKAY. ITEM NO. 8, WAS THAT SOMETHING YOU OBSERVED, SIR?
A NO. OFFICER RISKE TOLD ME THAT.
Q WERE YOU ABLE TO OBSERVE IT FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT, EITHER AT THE FRONT GATE OF THE WALKWAY WHEN YOU WERE WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, OR FROM THE LANDING OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR WHERE YOU OBSERVED THE CRIME SCENE IN THE COMPANY OF OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A NO. I DID NOT OBSERVE THAT FROM THAT LOCATION.
Q SO THAT WAS INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?
A YES.
Q ITEM NO. 9. THOSE WERE THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU DESCRIBED TO US EARLIER?
A YES.
Q WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU PERSONALLY OBSERVED?
A YES.
Q AND WAS IT ALSO POINTED OUT TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q ITEM NO. 10, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO IN THAT ITEM?
A YES, A CANVASS IS THE TERM WE USE TO DESCRIBE OFFICERS GOING TO NEIGHBORS, LOCATIONS AROUND THE CRIME SCENE, TO SEE IF THEY HEARD OR SAW ANYTHING AT ANY TIME DURING THE EVENING THAT COULD HAVE LED UP TO THE TIME OF THE MURDERS.
Q AND AS OF THE TIME YOU WERE WRITING THOSE NOTES DID YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION FROM ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS NEARBY ABOUT WHAT MAY HAVE TRANSPIRED THAT NIGHT?
A NONE.
Q SO YOU HAD NO IDEA THEN AT THE POINT -- AT THAT POINT WHETHER THERE WERE ANY EYEWITNESSES OR EAR WITNESSES, PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE HEARD THINGS OR SEEN THINGS, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN RELEVANT TO THE MURDERS?
A I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANY, NO....

Q ALL RIGHT. THIS IS THE THIRD PAGE OF YOUR NOTES, SIR?
A YES.
Q ITEM NO. 13, "AT THE REAR GATE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE." IS THAT NORTH? "N SLASH S"; IS THAT RIGHT?
A NORTH SIDE.
Q "TWO BLOOD SPOTS AT THE BOTTOM INSIDE OF THE GATE." IS THAT WHAT YOU DESCRIBED AS HAVING SEEN IN YOUR TESTIMONY EARLIER YESTERDAY?
A YES, IT IS.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU SAY, "THIS AREA MIGHT HAVE BEEN WHERE DOG WAS KEPT," WHEN YOU SAY "THIS AREA," WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
A THE PATHWAY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE, IT HAD GATES AT BOTH ENDS, AND SINCE THE DOG WAS LOOSE AND I HAD ALREADY BEEN TOLD THAT, I JUST MADE A NOTE THAT THIS COULD BE THE AREA THAT THE DOG WAS KEPT. IN OTHER WORDS, IF IT DIDN'T LIVE IN THE HOME.
Q OKAY.
WHEN YOU SAY THE NORTH -- THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE, YOU MEAN THAT WALKWAY THAT LEADS FROM THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE TO THE REAR ALLEY?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND YOU WERE SPECULATING TO YOURSELF THAT MIGHT BE WHERE THE DOG WAS KEPT?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND THEN IT SAYS, "SUSPECT RAN THROUGH THIS AREA. SUSPECT POSSIBLY BITTEN BY DOG," QUESTION MARK. WHEN YOU SAY "SUSPECT RAN THROUGH THIS AREA," THAT WAS BASED ON WHAT?
A WELL, THERE WAS THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS --
Q UH-HUH.
A -- WESTBOUND AWAY FROM THE LANDING AND THE VICTIMS. THERE WAS BLOOD DROPS TO THE LEFT OF THOSE SHOEPRINTS.
I PUT THAT IN MY NOTES TO MAKE MYSELF REMEMBER THAT A DOG WAS PROBABLY IN THAT AREA AND FOR MYSELF TO WONDER IF MAYBE THE DOG BIT THE SUSPECT.
Q OKAY.
SO THAT WAS JUST YOUR SPECULATION THEN, POSSIBLY BITTEN BY THE DOG?
A YES, MA'AM. THAT IS WHY I PUT A QUESTION MARK THERE.
Q OKAY. NO ONE HAD TOLD YOU THAT, IN OTHER WORDS?
A NO.
Q ITEM NO. 14, "THE REAR GATE, POSSIBLE BLOOD SMUDGE ON UPPER RAIL OF GATE."
A YES.
Q AND IS THAT WHAT YOU DESCRIBED TO US AS HAVING SEEN EARLIER IN YOUR TESTIMONY YESTERDAY?
A YES.
Q AND WHEN YOU SAY, "THE UPPER RAIL OF THE GATE," CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT?
DESCRIBE THE AREA YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
A YES. THE GATE IS COMPRISED OF LARGE TWO-INCH TUBING THAT APPEARED TO BE BENT AND INTO NINETY DEGREES TO CREATE THE OUTSIDE -- OUTSIDE OF THE GATE AND THEN SOME TYPE OF SECURITY MESH AND RAIL IN THE MIDDLE, AND THAT LARGE TUBULAR PART OF THE GATE IS WHERE THE SMUDGE WAS ON TOP....

Q ITEM NO. 15, YOU HAVE, "REAR GATE INSIDE, DEAD BOLT TURN KNOB TYPE," AND WHAT ARE YOU DESCRIBING THERE, SIR?
A THE TYPE OF CONVENTIONAL KNOB ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE GATE IS A LOCKING MECHANISM AND ON THE INSIDE OF THE GATE WOULD BE A TURN KNOB.
IN OTHER WORDS, THE KEY WOULD BE USED ON THE EXTERIOR AND A TURN KNOB. IF YOU ARE IN THE INSIDE, YOU WOULD NOT NEED A KEY, YOU WOULD JUST TURN A KNOB, SIMILAR TO A DEAD BOLT STYLE ON A HOUSE.
Q OKAY.
DID OFFICER RISKE TELL YOU IN WHAT CONDITION HE FOUND THAT GATE WHEN HE FIRST RESPONDED TO THE CRIME SCENE?
A I DON'T RECALL IF HE TOLD US. I SAW THAT IT WAS OPEN.
Q OKAY.
AND WHEN YOU FIRST WALKED THROUGH THAT REAR GATE FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, WAS IT STANDING OPEN, SIR, OR WAS IT PROPPED OPEN?
A IT WASN'T WIDE OPEN, BUT IT WAS OPEN MAYBE SEVERAL INCHES.
Q OKAY.
A TO A FOOT, I SUPPOSE.
Q SO DID IT HAVE TO BE PUSHED IN ORDER FOR YOU TO EXIT? DID OFFICER RISKE PUSH IT OPEN WHEN YOU EXITED?
A IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN PUSHED OPEN WITH A PEN OR A FLASHLIGHT. IT WASN'T PUSHED OPEN WITH THE BARE HAND.
Q OKAY.
AND THEN YOU SAID HERE, "POSSIBLE BLOOD SMUDGE AND VISIBLE FINGERPRINT." CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THERE? I BELIEVE YOU ADDRESSED THAT EARLIER IN YOUR TESTIMONY.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS THAT YOU SAW THAT CAUSED YOU TO WRITE THAT?
A YES. ON THE INSIDE WHERE I DESCRIBED THE DEAD BOLT STYLE LOCK ON THE INSIDE OR THE EAST SIDE OF THE GATE, THE -- ON THE TURN -- TURN KNOB THERE LOOKED -- IT IS BRASS, BRASS-PLATED, IT LOOKED TO BE BLOOD SMUDGE ON THAT LEADING TO WHAT I SAW MIGHT BE A POSSIBLE FINGERPRINT OR A PARTIAL FINGERPRINT.
Q OKAY. AND SO YOU MADE A NOTE OF THAT?
A YES.
Q OKAY. ITEM NO. 16, "BLOODY PAW PRINTS OF LARGE DOG LEADING FROM THE RESIDENCE SOUTHBOUND ON THE SIDEWALK APPROXIMATELY SIXTY FEET SOUTH OF THE RESIDENCE."
CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING THERE?
A YES. COMING OUT OF THE FRONT OF THE WALKWAY WHERE ALL THE BLOOD WAS -- WAS FLOWING DOWN TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK, THERE WAS CANINE PAW PRINTS LEADING SOUTHBOUND ON THE WALK TOWARDS DOROTHY AND I APPROXIMATED THAT THE PAW PRINTS WERE VISIBLE FOR SIXTY FEET.
Q OKAY. AND THAT WAS YOUR PERSONAL OBSERVATION, SIR?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q AND ITEM 17 YOU WROTE, "SKI MASK, ONE GLOVE BY FEET OF MALE VICTIM."
AND AGAIN CAN YOU TELL US, WAS THAT YOUR PERSONAL OBSERVATION?
A YES, IT WAS, BOTH DIRECTED BY OFFICER RISKE AND MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION.
Q SO THAT WAS A COMBINATION OF OFFICER RISKE'S INFORMATION TO YOU AND YOUR OWN PERSONAL OBSERVATION?
A YES....

Q BY MS. CLARK: YOU DESCRIBED IN YOUR NOTES, SIR, ITEM NO. 17, THE SKI MASK.
BASED ON YOUR OBSERVATION AT THAT TIME, WAS THAT -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS:
HAD YOU GONE UP TO AND HELD IT AND LOOKED AT IT WHEN YOU WROTE THAT NOTE, SIR?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q WHAT KIND OF OBSERVATION DID YOU HAVE OF THE OBJECT YOU WERE DESCRIBING AT THE TIME YOU WROTE THAT NOTE, ITEM 17?
A WELL, IT APPEARED TO BE WHAT I USUALLY DESCRIBE AS A SKI CAP OR A SKI MASK AND IT LOOKED DULL, CLOTH AND THAT IS WHAT I CONCLUDED IT COULD POSSIBLY BE, AND THE GLOVE WAS FAIRLY OBVIOUS, THAT IT APPEARED TO BE A LEATHER TYPE GLOVE.
Q SO AT THE POINT THAT YOU WROTE THAT NOTE, YOU HAD NOT WALKED UP INTO THE CRIME SCENE AND STEPPED UP TO THE BUSH TO LOOK AT IT?
A NO, I HADN'T.
Q THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE SHOWED YOU YESTERDAY OF YOU POINTING TO THE ITEMS UNDERNEATH THAT BUSH, WHEN WAS THAT TAKEN, SIR?
A I BELIEVE THAT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND 7:00 OR 7:15 THAT MORNING.

Q AT THAT POINT, SIR, HAD YOU ALREADY BEEN TO ROCKINGHAM AND COME BACK TO BUNDY?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q SO AT THE POINT THAT YOU WROTE THE SKI MASK, HOW CLOSE HAD YOU GOTTEN TO THAT ITEM?
A NO CLOSER THAN THE LANDING WHERE I OBSERVED THE TWO VICTIMS FROM WHERE THE FIRST SHOEPRINT --
Q THAT WAS THE CLOSEST OBSERVATION YOU HAD AT THAT POINT?
A YES....

Q OKAY.
SO ITEM NO. 17 IS BASED ON YOUR OBSERVATION OF THESE TWO ITEMS THAT YOU GOT A LOOK AT FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF THE GATE WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FROM THE LANDING WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A YES, MA'AM....

Q BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU GOT AS FAR AS ITEM NO. 17 DOCUMENTING YOUR OBSERVATION OF A SKI MASK, ONE GLOVE BY THE FEET OF THE MALE VICTIM.
HAD YOU COMPLETED YOUR NOTES AT THAT POINT? WERE YOU ALL DONE?
A NO.
Q WHAT HAPPENED TO INTERRUPT YOU?
A WELL, BEFORE -- WHILE I WAS STILL WRITING MY NOTES, DETECTIVE ROBERTS ENTERED, HE HAD JUST ARRIVED ON SCENE AND HE CAME INTO THE -- INTO THE LIVING ROOM, HE WAS DIRECTED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, AND HE SAID, "CAN YOU UPDATE ME OR BRING ME UP TO SPEED?"
I DID THAT BRIEFLY. I TOLD HIM -- I INFORMED HIM WHAT I HAD SEEN IN THE HOUSE. I TOOK HIM ONTO THE LANDING VERY QUICKLY, POINTED OUT THERE WAS A GLOVE, A CAP, THERE WAS A MALE VICTIM, A FEMALE VICTIM, A MENU.
I SHOWED HIM THE SHOEPRINTS. I WALKED HIM BACK THE PATH. I SHOWED HIM ON THE GATE THE BLOOD. AND THIS IS AT THIS TIME IS WHEN DETECTIVE ROBERTS AND I BOTH SAW THE SMUDGE AND THAT POSSIBLE VISIBLE FINGERPRINT.
Q LET ME INTERRUPT ONE MINUTE.
DETECTIVE ROBERTS, WHO IS THAT?
A DETECTIVE ROBERTS IS A DETECTIVE ASSIGNED TO WEST L.A. HOMICIDE WHO I NORMALLY WORK WITH AS A PARTNER.
Q OKAY.
SO HE CAME INTO THE RESIDENCE. DO YOU KNOW HOW HE GOT INTO THE RESIDENCE?
A YES. HE WAS DIRECTED WHERE TO GO THROUGH THE GARAGE.
Q OKAY. AND HE CAME IN AND THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW HIM AT THAT SCENE WAS WHEN YOU WERE WRITING NOTES SITTING ON THE COUCH INSIDE THE RESIDENCE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES.
Q OKAY. AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU SAW DETECTIVE ROBERTS, YOU HAD BEEN AT THE SCENE FOR HOW LONG?
A I STILL SAY THAT WOULD BE FIFTEEN MINUTES WHEN I WAS WRITING MY NOTES. THE WALK THROUGH WITH HIM COULDN'T HAVE TAKEN MORE THAN THREE OR FOUR MINUTES.
Q OKAY.
AFTER YOU WALKED HIM THROUGH THE REAR GATE OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY AREA, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I WALKED HIM OUT THROUGH THE DRIVEWAY. I POINTED OUT THE BLOOD DROP, CHANGE. HE ALSO LOOKED IN THE ALLEY FOR BLOOD DROPS AS WE WALKED THAT WAY. HE COULD SEE NONE.
AND HE CONTINUED BACK TO DOROTHY TO WALK OUT TO THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE AND STAND WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q OKAY.
SO DID YOU BOTH THEN WALK OUT THERE TO THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?
A NO. I RETURNED TO THE INTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE TO FINISH WHAT I WAS PREVIOUSLY DOING, WRITING MY NOTES.
Q OKAY.
SO WHERE WAS IT THAT YOU PARTED COMPANY WITH DETECTIVE ROBERTS?
A IN THE ALLEY.
Q WHEN YOU WENT BACK INSIDE, HOW DID YOU ENTER THE RESIDENCE THE SECOND TIME?
A THE SAME WAY. I PASSED THE FERRARI INTO THAT LOWER DOOR UP THE STAIRS.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO TO?
A I WENT TO THE SAME -- SAME COUCH. I SAT ON THE EDGE OF THE COUCH.
Q AND YOU -- DID YOU -- WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?
A I FINISHED THE NOTES THAT LED UP TO
ITEM 17.
Q OKAY. AND AT ITEM 17 HAD YOU COMPLETED YOUR NOTES?
A NO.
Q WERE YOU AGAIN INTERRUPTED?
A YES.
Q WHAT HAPPENED?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ENTERED FROM THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE AND HE CAME IN AND INFORMED ME THAT ROBBERY/HOMICIDE WOULD BE TAKING OVER THE INVESTIGATION.
Q OKAY.
AND HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN SITTING ON THE COUCH WRITING WHEN YOU WERE INTERRUPTED THAT SECOND TIME BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A MAYBE ANOTHER FIVE MINUTES, MAYBE AS MUCH AS TEN.
Q AND WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS INFORMED YOU THAT ROBBERY/HOMICIDE WAS GOING TO TAKE OVER THE CASE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I TOLD RON OR DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, I SAID, "LET ME FINISH THESE NOTES AND THEN I WILL TURN THEM OVER TO YOU."
Q AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?
A HE SAYS, "OKAY, FINISH THE NOTES AND THEN GIVE THEM TO ME AND I WILL GIVE THEM TO ROBBERY/HOMICIDE."
Q AND DID YOU THEN COMPLETE YOUR NOTES?
A YES.
Q SO ITEM 17, WAS THAT MEANT TO BE YOUR LAST ENTRY IN YOUR NOTES AT THAT TIME?
A NO.
Q YOU DIDN'T COMPLETE YOUR NOTES?
A I DID NOT, NO.
Q AND WHY NOT?
A BECAUSE THE CASE WAS NO LONGER MINE.
Q OKAY.
WHAT POINT WERE YOU AT WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS INTERRUPTED YOU IN WRITING? HAD YOU FINISHED ITEM 17 YET OR HAD YOU -- WERE YOU IN THE MIDDLE?
A WELL, I DON'T KNOW -- AT THE END OF
ITEM 17 I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH SEVERAL OTHER DETAILS ON SOME OF THESE ITEMS AND STARTED SETTING UP WHO I NEEDED TO CONTACT AT THIS SCENE TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THIS CRIME SCENE.
Q OKAY.
BUT INSTEAD OF THAT, YOU JUST STOPPED AT THAT POINT?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO THEN?
A I WENT BACK OUT THROUGH THE GARAGE SOUTH ON THE ALLEY, DOWN DOROTHY TO BUNDY, AND REMAINED IN THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE OR THE STREET AT THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND WAITED FOR ROBBERY/HOMICIDE'S ARRIVAL.
Q OKAY.
SO DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS COME IN AND INFORM YOU ROBBERY/HOMICIDE WAS GOING TO TAKE OVER AND THEN EXIT AGAIN?
A YES. I THINK HE MADE AN INDICATION THAT HE HAD TALKED TO CHIEF FRANKLE AND HE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE BEST IF ROBBERY/HOMICIDE HANDLED THE CASE.
Q OKAY.
WHEN HE INFORMED YOU OF THAT, SIR, HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN AT THE CRIME SCENE?
A ABOUT A HALF HOUR.
Q DID HE TURN AROUND AND LEAVE THEN AND YOU SAT AND FINISHED YOUR NOTES AT THAT POINT?
A YES.
Q FOR HOW LONG BEFORE YOU EXITED THE RESIDENCE?
A OH, I DON'T THINK I -- I PROBABLY HAD JUST TWO OR THREE ITEMS LEFT THAT WAS CURRENTLY ON MY MIND THAT I NEEDED TO PUT DOWN THAT I THOUGHT WERE IMPORTANT.
Q OKAY. SO HOW LONG IN TERMS OF TIME WAS THAT?
A OH, A MINUTE, TWO MINUTES AT THE MOST.
Q SO YOU REMAINED A MINUTE OR TWO MINUTES AFTER DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ADVISED YOU RHD WAS TAKING OVER THE CASE?
A RIGHT. I JUST PUT DOWN THE THOUGHTS THAT I HAD WHEN HE WALKED IN AND I STOPPED.
Q AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)
Q WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I JUST WENT OUT AND WAITED FOR ROBBERY/HOMICIDE ON THE STREET.
Q WHEN YOU SAY YOU WAITED ON THE STREET, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE ON THE STREET YOU WERE WAITING?
A IT WAS THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, PROBABLY JUST INSIDE THAT YELLOW TAPE OR JUST OUTSIDE, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH IT WAS.
Q WHO WERE YOU WITH AT THAT TIME?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, THE COMMANDING OFFICER OF WEST L.A. DETECTIVES. I BELIEVE A PHOTOGRAPHER HAD ARRIVED, I'M NOT POSITIVE ON THAT, AND THEN THERE IS POLICEMEN, A SUPERVISOR, UNIFORMED PERSONNEL.
Q QUITE A FEW OFFICERS AROUND BY THAT TIME, WERE THERE?
A YES. I BELIEVE DETECTIVE ROBERTS WAS STILL THERE AND DETECTIVE NOLAN WAS STILL THERE.
Q AND WERE THEY ALL STANDING WITH YOU OUTSIDE?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT DID DO YOU WHEN YOU CAME BACK OUTSIDE AND WENT TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY?
A NOTHING....

Q NOW, WERE YOU STILL HOLDING YOUR NOTES WHEN YOU CAME BECOME OUTSIDE?
A I GAVE THEM TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IMMEDIATELY.
Q OKAY. OUTSIDE AT THE INTERSECTION THERE?
A YES.
Q DID YOU EVER GO BACK TO YOUR CAR?
A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)
Q THE CAR THAT YOU DROVE IN WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A YES.
Q WHEN WAS THAT?
A PROBABLY SOME TIME SHORTLY THEREAFTER AFTER COMING OUT OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
A PUT MY JACKET IN THE CAR.
Q SO YOU TOOK YOUR JACKET OFF AT THAT POINT?
A YES....

Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHO IS THAT?
A DENNIS FUNG, A CRIMINALIST.
Q HE IS POINTING TO AN AREA ON THE GATE THERE. CAN YOU TELL US, FIRST OF ALL, IS THAT THE REAR GATE AT THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES, IT IS.
Q OKAY.
AND THE AREA HE IS POINTING TO, SIR, IS THAT -- DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE AREA HE IS POINTING TO?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT AREA IS THAT?
A THAT IS THE AREA I REMEMBER THAT THE SMUDGE WAS -- APPEARED TO BE A BLOOD SMUDGE....

Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT LOCATION, SIR?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHAT IS THAT?
A THAT IS THE NORTH WALKWAY LEADING TOWARDS -- TOWARD THE ALLEY THAT WOULD BE GOING DUE WEST TOWARDS THAT REAR GATE.
Q OKAY. SO IS THAT THE REAR GATE?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q OKAY.
AND THE POSITION THAT THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS TAKEN FROM, IS THAT INSIDE THE REAR GATE FACING THE ALLEY OR IS IT FACING EASTBOUND TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?
A IT IS FACING THE ALLEY FROM THE INSIDE.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 53-B.
Q BY MS. CLARK: I'M DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO WHAT APPEARS TO BE MARKED AS 115 AND 116 ITEMS -- ITEM NUMBERS. CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHAT IS IT?
A THOSE ARE THE BLOOD DROPS THAT I SAW AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RAIL.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND ARE THOSE THE BLOOD DROPS THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IN YOUR NOTES IN
ITEM NO. 13, SIR?
A YES, IT IS.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU....
 

Q BY MS. CLARK: WE HAVE A CLOSER-UP SHOT HERE, SIR.
DO YOU SEE WHAT IS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 106? DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, SIR?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q TELL US HOW?
A THAT APPEARS TO BE THE BLOOD SMUDGE THAT I SAW ON THE UPPER PORTION OF THAT GATE FROM THE INSIDE.
Q AND IS THAT THE -- THE APPEARANCE OF IT AS YOU RECALL?
A YES.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

Q BY MS. CLARK: NOW, WHAT KIND -- WERE YOU USING ANY KIND OF FLASHLIGHT TO MAKE THE OBSERVATIONS THAT YOU DOCUMENTED IN YOUR NOTES?
A I USED THAT SMALL FLASHLIGHT THAT I KEPT ON MY BELT, YES.
Q OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU WERE STANDING OUT IN THE STREET, I THINK YOU INDICATED, THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, WAITING FOR ROBBERY/HOMICIDE TO ARRIVE?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND THERE WERE -- AND WHO DID YOU SAY WAS WITH YOU, SIR?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, I BELIEVE
DETECTIVE ROBERTS WAS THERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG, DETECTIVE NOLAN WAS THERE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN HE LEFT, LIEUTENANT SPANGLER.
THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY THAT ARRIVED FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE, OTHER THAN THE DETECTIVES, BUT I'M NOT SURE.
I REMEMBER SEEING LIEUTENANT -- I BELIEVE HE IS LIEUTENANT ROGERS THERE AT SOME TIME, BUT I'M NOT SURE IT WAS THAT EARLY.
Q AT THAT POINT, SIR, DID YOU HAVE -- WERE THERE ANY POLICE OFFICERS GUARDING THE PERIMETER, THAT IS, GUARDING THE CRIME SCENE TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM WALKING IN?
A YES, THE CRIME SCENE WAS WHAT WE WOULD CALL SEALED OFF.
Q WAS THERE ANYONE INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE AT THAT POINT?
A NO.
Q DO YOU RECALL HOW MANY BLACK AND WHITE UNITS WERE THERE?
A I WAS TOLD THERE WAS A BLACK AND WHITE UNIT THE STREET TO -- THE FIRST EAST-WEST STREET TO THE NORTH OF DOROTHY AT THE ALLEY, AND I BELIEVE ONE AT THE INTERSECTION OF BUNDY AND THAT STREET.
I KNOW THERE WAS A SUPERVISOR AND A UNIT AT DOROTHY AND BUNDY. I SAW A BLACK AND WHITE DIRECTLY TO THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY IN THE ALLEY, AND THAT IS ALL I CAN RECALL.
Q HOW MANY COMMANDING OFFICERS WERE PRESENT AT THAT TIME?
A LIEUTENANT SPANGLER WAS THE ONLY COMMANDING OFFICER.

Q ALL RIGHT.
AT SOME POINT, SIR, DID YOU MAKE CONTACT WITH ANY DETECTIVE FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE?
A YES.
Q AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THAT CONTACT WAS MADE?
A STANDING IN THE SAME LOCATION ON THE STREET.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU GO BACK INTO THE CRIME SCENE, THAT IS, UP TO THAT GATE WHERE YOU HAD GONE EARLIER WITH OFFICER RISKE OR INTO THE HOUSE OR UP ONTO THE LANDING AGAIN?
A I NEVER RETURNED TO THAT CRIME SCENE.
Q AND SO YOU WAITED OUTSIDE UNTIL ROBBERY/HOMICIDE CAME?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHEN YOU SAW DETECTIVE VANNATTER, THAT WAS WHERE?
A ON THE STREET, THE SAME LOCATION.
Q HAD YOU EVER MET HIM BEFORE?
A NO, I HADN'T.
Q WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU MET?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT?
A I WAS INTRODUCED TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER, AS WAS RON PHILLIPS. RON PHILLIPS BRIEFED HIM ON WHAT HAD BEEN SEEN AND DONE AT THAT POINT AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER -- EXCUSE ME -- DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LED DETECTIVE VANNATTER THROUGH A CRIME SCENE WALK THROUGH.
Q OKAY. DID YOU GO WITH THEM?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q YOU REMAINED OUTSIDE?
A YES.

Q DID YOU EVER GO BACK INTO THE CRIME SCENE BEFORE GOING TO ROCKINGHAM LATER THAT MORNING?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q SO AFTER THE POINT THAT YOU LEFT THE RESIDENCE AFTER COMPLETING YOUR NOTES, YOU NEVER WENT BACK IN AGAIN UNTIL LATER IN THE MORNING AFTER HAVING GONE TO ROCKINGHAM?
A YES, YOU ARE CORRECT. I DID RETURN AT ABOUT 7:00, 7:15, YES.
Q SO YOU REMAINED OUT IN THE INTERSECTION AND DID YOU MEET ANYONE ELSE FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE AT THAT POINT?
A YES, DETECTIVE TOM LANGE.
Q OKAY.
AND WERE YOU STILL STANDING OUTSIDE AT THE INTERSECTION WHEN HE ARRIVED?
A YES, I WAS.
Q WHERE WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OR DETECTIVE VANNATTER?
A I BELIEVE THEY HAD RETURNED.
DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVED FIFTEEN, TWENTY MINUTES AFTER THEM, MAYBE A LITTLE LONGER. THEY WERE BACK OUT ON THE -- IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q OKAY.
AND WHAT HAPPENED WHEN DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVED?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LED HIM THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE WALK THROUGH.
Q OKAY. DID YOU GO WITH THEM?
A NO.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO?
A I REMAINED ON THE STREET.
Q OKAY.
SO THEN THE CRIME SCENE WAS TOURED BY OFFICERS BEFORE YOU ARRIVED, SIR; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND THEN AGAIN BY OFFICERS AFTER YOU HAD BEEN THERE?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q NOW, ONCE RHD -- ROBBERY/HOMICIDE DIVISION HAD COME IN TO TAKE OVER THE CASE, WHAT WERE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES?
A MY RESPONSIBILITIES AT THAT POINT WAS TO FOLLOW DETECTIVE PHILLIPS' ORDERS. HE SAID WE WERE GOING TO REMAIN AT THE SCENE AND IF WE COULD BE OF ASSISTANCE, AND IF NOT, WE WOULD BE RELIEVED.
Q NOW, AT SOME POINT DID YOU LEAVE THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES, WE DID.
Q WAS THIS AFTER DETECTIVE LANGE HAD BEEN GIVEN A WALK-THROUGH BY WAS IT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A YES.
Q WAS IT AFTER THAT POINT?
A YES, IT WAS....

Q OKAY.
SO AT APPROXIMATELY FIVE O'CLOCK YOU ALL DROVE OVER TO 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM.
AND HOW LONG DID -- IS THAT RIGHT?
A I BELIEVE IT IS 360.
Q 360?
A 360, YES.
Q THANK YOU.
HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET THERE?
A FIVE, TEN MINUTES.
Q CAN YOU RECALL WHERE YOU PARKED WHEN YOU GOT TO THE LOCATION?
A YES.
Q DID YOU DRIVE UP ROCKINGHAM FROM SUNSET, DRIVE NORTH ON ROCKINGHAM?
A YES, WE DID.
Q AND AS YOU DID SO, WERE YOU LOOKING FOR THE ADDRESS OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?
A YES. WELL, IT IS -- IT IS PRETTY EASY OFF SUNSET. YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING NORTH OF SUNSET IS 100 AND GOES UP, SO IT IS GOING TO BE ABOUT THREE OF THE BLOCKS UP IN THAT AREA.
Q UH-HUH. OKAY.
SO DID YOU HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHERE TO LOOK WHEN YOU WERE DRIVING UP THERE?
A YES.
Q AND AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, DID ANYTHING ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION?
A I NOTICED A WHITE VEHICLE PARKED BY THE DRIVEWAY ON -- ON ROCKINGHAM.
Q OKAY.
AND DID YOU KNOW AT THE TIME YOU SAW THE WHITE VEHICLE THAT THAT WAS PARKED IN FRONT OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?
A WELL, I THINK -- I THINK THE RESIDENCE LOOKED SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR. I REMEMBERED FROM '85 IT WAS A CORNER RESIDENCE, VERY NICE, SPACIOUS FRONT YARD WITH A WALL, I REMEMBERED THAT, WITH BRICK.
Q UH-HUH.
A AND WHEN I PASSED IT, I THINK I CONCLUDED THAT THIS IS -- THIS IS THE ADDRESS.
Q AT THE TIME THAT YOU FIRST SAW THAT WHITE VEHICLE, WAS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT IT THAT DREW YOUR ATTENTION OR WAS IT JUST THAT THERE WAS A WHITE CAR PARKED THERE?
A NO. I WAS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE AND WE PASSED THE VEHICLE AND IT WAS A WHITE FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE VEHICLE. I JUST -- I DIDN'T MAKE A -- MUCH OF A NOTE OF IT; I JUST NOTICED IT.
Q OKAY.
NOW, WHERE DID YOU PARK? YOU DIDN'T PARK, ACTUALLY. WHERE DID RON PARK?
A HE TURNED RIGHT OR EASTBOUND ON ASHFORD AND PARKED JUST WEST OF THE ASHFORD GATE.
Q WERE YOU IN THE LEAD, YOUR CAR?
A YES.
Q AND DO YOU KNOW ON WHAT SIDE OF THE ASHFORD GATE THAT YOU PARKED?
A I PARKED ON THE WEST SIDE....

Q OKAY.
SO YOU WERE ALL STANDING THERE TOGETHER AT THAT -- AT THE CALL BOX RINGING THE BELL?
A YES, IN THAT GENERAL AREA.
Q OKAY.
AND AFTER THE TEN OR FIFTEEN MINUTES OF RINGING WITHOUT RECEIVING AN ANSWER, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I BELIEVE -- I BELIEVE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS ON HIS CELLULAR PHONE AND VANNATTER AND LANGE REMAINED AT THE GATE AND I -- I WALKED WESTBOUND DOWN ASHFORD TOWARDS THE INTERSECTION OF ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD....

Q AND THEN WHAT?
A I WAS JUST -- JUST LOOKING. I NOTICED SOME LIGHTS ON IN THE RESIDENCE THAT WERE ON THE ENTIRE TIME WE WERE THERE, AND I STARTED WALKING SOUTHBOUND ON ROCKINGHAM....
RKED A LITTLE ASKEW OR A LITTLE -- TO ME IT LOOKED PARKED A LITTLE UNUSUAL FOR THAT TYPE OF PARKING....
 

Q WHEN WE LAST LEFT OFF, YOU WERE WALKING DOWN TOWARDS THE BRONCO; IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q OKAY.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: TWO, PLEASE. PEOPLE'S 62-A.
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE VEHICLE THAT'S BEING SHOWN TO YOU IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?
A YES. THAT APPEARS TO BE THE VEHICLE I SAW PARKED BY THE ROCKINGHAM GATE THAT MORNING.
Q OKAY.
WAS IT PARKED IN THAT LOCATION, SIR?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED THE BRONCO, YOU APPROACHED IT FROM WHAT END?
A NORTH OF THE BRONCO.
Q OKAY.
SO THAT IF YOU -- AS YOU WALKED TOWARDS IT, YOU WERE FACING THE FRONT OF THE BRONCO; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A I WAS WALKING TOWARDS THE BRONCO AND I MADE THE -- I NOTICED THAT IT WAS JUST PARKED JUST A LITTLE ASKEW, A LITTLE STRANGELY. IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS NO DIFFICULTY IN PARKING THERE, BUT YET IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS PARKED RATHER HAPHAZARDLY.
Q CAN YOU BE A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
A WELL, IT APPEARED THAT IT WASN'T PULLED TO THE CURB EVENLY. THE REAR END WAS JUTTING OUT A LITTLE BIT AND THE TIRES WEREN'T STRAIGHT IN THE FRONT COMPLETELY.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 62-E.
Q BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT.
SHOWING YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, IF YOU CAN TELL US WHETHER THAT APPEARS TO BE THE SAME FORD BRONCO THAT WE JUST SAW IN THE PREVIOUS PHOTOGRAPH.
A IT APPEARS TO BE, YES.
Q AND THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SEE IT IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW IT ON JUNE THE 13TH AT APPROXIMATELY 5:00 A.M.?
A YES. I CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE FRONT, BUT THE REAR APPEARS TO BE ABOUT THE SAME POSITION, YES.
Q NOW, THE BRONCO THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT HERE, IS THAT THE SAME BRONCO THAT YOU PASSED ON THE WAY TO PARKING ON ASHFORD?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHEN YOU NOTICED THAT IT WAS PARKED A LITTLE BIT ASKEW OR A LITTLE BIT HAPHAZARDLY, WERE YOU LOOKING AT IT FROM THE FRONT OR FROM THE REAR?
A FROM THE FRONT.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I WALKED CLOSER TO THE BRONCO, AND AS I APPROACHED TO THE LEFT OF THE BRONCO, WHICH WOULD BE EAST, ON THE PARKWAY, I SAW A BROKEN PIECE OF WOOD. IT WAS WHITE WOOD WITH A FRESHLY EXPOSED PIECE OF WOOD.
Q WHY DID THAT DRAW YOUR ATTENTION?
A WELL, IT LOOKED OUT OF PLACE. THERE WAS -- THIS IS A PARKWAY. THERE WAS NOTHING THAT RESEMBLED THIS. THERE WAS NO GARBAGE. THERE WAS NO LEAVES, LIMBS, ANYTHING. IT WAS JUST ODD AND I DID NOT SEE AT ANY TIME ANY TYPE OF WOOD FENCE ANYWHERE WHERE I CAME UP ROCKINGHAM OR ANYWHERE AROUND THE PREMISES....

Q SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 107, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US -- YOU JUST DESCRIBED A WOODEN STICK THAT YOU SAW NEAR THE BRONCO SHORTLY AFTER 5:00 A.M. ON JUNE THE 13TH.
DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN TO YOU IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES. IT APPEARS TO BE A -- DIRECTLY EAST OF THE RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF THE BRONCO ON THE PARKWAY.
Q I AM SORRY.
IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW IT ON THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH?
A YES, I BELIEVE SO.
Q AND THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH ALSO BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL... SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 108, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE THAT ITEM?
A YES. THAT APPEARS TO BE THE PIECE OF WOOD WITH THE EXPOSED WOOD.
Q THAT YOU SAW?
A YES.
Q WAS THERE ANY PAINT ON THAT WOOD?
A YES. IT APPEARED TO BE OLD WHITE PAINT.
Q THERE APPEARS TO BE SOME KIND OF A SMUDGE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT, A DARKER COLOR IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT PIECE OF WOOD?
A YES.
Q BASED UPON YOUR RECOLLECTION, YOUR OBSERVATION OF THAT PIECE OF WOOD, SIR, DID THERE APPEAR TO BE ANY BLOOD ON IT?
A NO.
Q DO YOU -- THAT SMUDGE THAT YOU SEE THERE, DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT DARKER SPOT ON THE WOOD WHEN YOU OBSERVED IT?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND WHAT WAS IT?
A TO ME, IT LOOKED LIKE THE PATH OF A IRON NAIL THAT HAD RUSTED AND CAUSED RUST TO BE LEFT ON THE WOOD.
Q UH-HUH.
WAS THERE ANY OTHER DEBRIS AROUND THAT PIECE OF WOOD ON THE LAWN?
A I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO....

Q AFTER YOU MADE THE OBSERVATION OF THAT PIECE OF WOOD, WHAT ELSE DID YOU DO?...
A THEN I WALKED TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE VEHICLE, THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE VEHICLE AND I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE VEHICLE AS I WAS WALKING DOWN THE LENGTH OF IT.
Q OKAY.
WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING FOR?
A OH, I DIDN'T KNOW. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I HAD SEEN.
Q SO YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT IT?
A YES.
Q AND AT THAT POINT, WERE YOU WAITING FOR SOMEBODY -- WHAT WERE YOU DOING OTHER THAN LOOKING AT THE CAR? WERE YOU WAITING FOR SOMETHING?
A I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO ANSWER THE RESIDENCE RINGER OR DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO OBTAIN SOME INFORMATION ON THE WHEREABOUTS OF ANYONE INSIDE IF HE COULD GET A -- I WAS WAITING FOR THEM TO GET SOMEONE TO ANSWER THE DOOR.
Q AND THE GATE, THE ROCKINGHAM GATE THAT THE BRONCO WAS PARKED JUST NORTH OF, WAS THAT CLOSED?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q AND THE ASHFORD GATE, WAS THAT CLOSED?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES, WERE THEY AROUND THE ASHFORD GATE?
A I BELIEVE VANNATTER AND LANGE WERE IN THAT GENERAL AREA AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS THE LAST TIME I SAW HIM WAS STANDING IN THE STREET WITH A CELLULAR PHONE....

Q ...ALL RIGHT.
YOU SAID YOU WALKED ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE BRONCO. AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SIDE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU NOTICE ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE BRONCO AS YOU LOOKED AT IT?
A WELL, AS I WAS WALKING PAST THE VEHICLE, I NOTICED A SMALL SPOT ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE OF THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE VEHICLE.
Q WHY DID THAT ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION?
A WELL, THE VEHICLE, AS YOU CAN SEE, IS WHITE AND IT STOOD OUT SOMEWHAT. IT WAS A VERY CLEAN VEHICLE.
Q UH-HUH.
AND WERE YOU ABLE -- AS YOU LOOKED AT THE CAR DOOR, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE CLEARLY WHAT IT WAS AT FIRST GLANCE?
A NO.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU NOTICED IT?
A I TOOK THE SMALL FLASHLIGHT OFF MY BELT AND I USED THAT FLASHLIGHT TO LOOK AT THE SPOT.
Q THE SAME FLASHLIGHT YOU USED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES, MA'AM....

Q NOW, SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 62-C, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A THAT'S THE SMALL SPOT THAT I SAW ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE.
Q UH-HUH.
WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU?
A WELL, AT FIRST, IT JUST LOOKED LIKE A SPOT OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN. WHEN I TOOK THE FLASHLIGHT OUT, I LOOKED AT IT AND IT LOOKED REDDISH BROWN AND TRANSLUCENT QUALITIES TO IT AND APPEARED TO BE DRY BLOOD.
Q AFTER YOU SAW THAT, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A THEN I CONTINUED TO LOOK FARTHER AROUND THE VEHICLE. AT ONE POINT, I ACTUALLY GOT DOWN ON MY HANDS AND KNEES AND LOOKED IN THE COMPLETE DOOR AREA, AND DOWN ON THE DOOR SILL I FOUND THREE OR FOUR SMALL LITTLE LINES WITH THE SAME COLOR AND QUALITIES THAT WERE EXHIBITED ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE.
Q OKAY.
AND THOSE -- WHAT AREA OF THE DOOR? WAS THAT THE DRIVER'S DOOR, SIR?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND WHAT AREA OF THE DRIVER'S DOOR WOULD THAT BE THAT YOU SAW THOSE THREE OR FOUR LINES THAT LOOKED THE SAME COLOR AS THE SMUDGE SHOWN IN 62-C?
A AS YOU OPEN THE DRIVER'S DOOR, THE AREA THAT THE DRIVER'S DOOR WOULD OPEN TO EXPOSE AT THE BOTTOM WOULD BE CALLED THE DOOR SILL, AND THAT EDGE THAT IS EXPOSED TO THE EXTERIOR BUT STILL PART OF THE BOTTOM OF THE SILL, IT WAS ON THAT PART.
Q OKAY.
WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU SAW ALL THAT?
A I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW AT THAT TIME, BUT I CONTINUED TO LOOK AT THE VEHICLE TO SEE IF I COULD OBSERVE ANYTHING ELSE....

Q WHERE DID YOU LOOK?
A I ATTEMPTED TO LOOK IN THE VEHICLE WITH MY FLASHLIGHT. IT WASN'T VERY HIGH POWERED AND THERE WAS TINTED WINDOWS. SO THAT WAS SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT.
AT ONE POINT, I CUPPED MY FLASHLIGHT AND TRIED TO GET THE BEAM TO FOCUS AS MUCH AS I COULD, AND I SAW A PACKAGE IN THE REAR CARGO AREA.
MS. CLARK: OKAY.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 62-F.
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?
A WELL, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT I SAW IN THE REAR, YES.
Q OKAY.
AND WHAT, IF ANY, IDENTIFYING INFORMATION WAS ON THOSE PACKAGES OR ANY OF THEM?
A I SAW "O.J. SIMPSON" ON THE ADDRESS OR "O.J. SIMPSON ENTERPRISES" AND "ATTENTION CATHY."
Q UH-HUH.
AND DID THAT CAUSE YOU TO FORM SOME OPINION ABOUT WHO OWNED THE CAR, SIR?
A WELL, IT SEEMED TO BE MR. SIMPSON'S OR SOMEONE THAT WORKED FOR HIM.
Q WHAT ELSE DID YOU SEE IN THE REAR CAR -- NEVER MIND. STRIKE THAT.
ALL RIGHT.
AS YOU MADE -- AFTER YOU MADE THOSE OBSERVATIONS OF THE PACKAGES IN THE REAR CARGO AREA, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE REAR CARGO AREA?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHAT WAS THAT?
A THERE WAS A SHOVEL THAT WAS APPROXIMATELY FIVE FEET LONG. IT WAS -- I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS A POINTED OR A FLAT-NOSE SHOVEL, BUT IT WAS TURNED POINT DOWN; IN OTHER WORDS, THE CUTTING EDGE DOWN, AND THERE WAS A LARGE PIECE OF HEAVY GAUGE PLASTIC THAT WAS TUCKED IN A SIDE CARGO AREA IN THE REAR PART OF THE VEHICLE.
Q CAN YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT DEPICTS WHAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHERE IS THAT?
A IN THE LEFT CORNER OF THIS PHOTOGRAPH, I SEE THE SHOVEL THAT I'M DESCRIBING.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU SEE THE PLASTIC, SIR?
A THERE'S A POCKET AREA TO THE -- ON THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE VEHICLE.
Q IN THE REAR CARGO AREA?
A IN THE REAR CARGO AREA, AND IT WAS FOLDED AND IT WAS TUCKED IN THAT AREA.
Q TUCKED IN THE POCKET?
A IT WAS A POCKET OR A NETTING. I'M NOT SURE WHICH IT WAS. IT SEEMED TO BE HELD THERE....

Q SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 109, SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES. THAT IS THE SHOVEL I DESCRIBED.
Q IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW IT, SIR, WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH THE REAR CARGO WINDOW OF THE BRONCO IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AFTER YOU MADE THOSE OBSERVATIONS, SIR, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A I WENT BACK TOWARDS ASHFORD AND I -- I DIDN'T WANT TO YELL TO THE OTHER DETECTIVES, BUT I WANTED TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT SOME OF THE OBSERVATIONS I MADE.
Q AND WHO DID YOU CONTACT?
A I SAW DETECTIVE LANGE UP TOWARDS THE INTERSECTION OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM, AND I BELIEVE I WALKED THAT AREA. I DIDN'T GET REAL CLOSE, BUT I GOT CLOSE ENOUGH WHERE I DIDN'T HAVE TO USE AN ELEVATED VOICE TO COMMUNICATE, AND I GOT DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND LANGE TO COME DOWN TO THE BRONCO.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU CONTACT -- MADE CONTACT WITH DETECTIVE LANGE, WHERE WAS HE?
A I THINK HE WAS ON ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM INTERSECTION MORE INBOARD OF ROCKINGHAM ON ASHFORD, BUT I COULD VISIBLY SEE HIM AS I WAS WALKING TOWARDS THAT DIRECTION.
Q UH-HUH.
AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WHERE WAS HE WHEN YOU MADE CONTACT WITH HIM?
A I DON'T RECALL SEEING HIM INITIALLY WHEN I TURNED AROUND. I BELIEVE HE WAS BACK TOWARDS THE GATE.
Q SO YOU CONTACTED DETECTIVE LANGE FIRST AT THE CORNER OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM?
A I BELIEVE SO, YES.
Q OKAY.
AND AFTER YOU TOLD HIM WHAT YOU'D SEEN, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A WELL, I BELIEVE I SAID, "I THINK I SAW SOMETHING ON THE BRONCO," AND VANNATTER AND LANGE AND I BOTH WALKED DOWN THERE AT THE SAME TIME.
Q SO YOU ALL WALKED DOWN, THE THREE OF YOU TOGETHER?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO THEN?
A I SHOWED THEM THE OBSERVATIONS. FIRST, THE -- AS WE WERE WALKING, I DESCRIBED THE WAY THE BRONCO FIRST KIND OF GOT MY ATTENTION. THEN I SHOWED THEM THE PIECE OF WOOD AND THEN THE SPOT THAT I THOUGHT WAS BLOOD, THE FOUR SMALL MARKS THAT I THOUGHT WAS BLOOD. I DESCRIBED WHAT WAS IN THE VEHICLE AND TRIED TO USE MY FLASHLIGHT AND GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO SEE THOSE ITEMS.
Q AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A AT SOME POINT, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WALKED DOWN THE STREET AND JOINED --
Q TOWARDS YOU?
A YES....
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A WELL, AT THAT POINT, DETECTIVE LANGE WALKED BACK UP TOWARDS ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM AND I BELIEVE EVENTUALLY TO THE FRONT GATE AT ASHFORD AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND I STOOD FOR A MOMENT SEVERAL FEET IN FRONT OF THE BRONCO AND WE DISCUSSED EXACTLY WHAT WE HAD OBSERVED AND WHAT IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE ON WHAT WE WERE ATTEMPTING TO DO....

Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A AT SOME POINT, A CONCLUSION WAS MADE BY DETECTIVE VANNATTER THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET INTO THE COMPOUND AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM....

Q ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU ASKED DETECTIVE VANNATTER IF HE WANTED YOU TO GO OVER THE WALL?
A I THINK I MADE THE STATEMENT AND THEN HE JUST SAID, "OKAY."
Q OKAY.
SO THAT DECISION WAS UP TO HIM TO MAKE; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES.
Q AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?
A I JUMPED THE WALL JUST TO THE LEFT OR EAST OF THE ASHFORD GATE, LANDED ON THE OTHER SIDE, CAME AROUND AND RELEASED THE HYDRAULIC ARM TO THE GATE ON ASHFORD AND LET THE OTHER DETECTIVES INTO THE LOCATION.
Q AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I BELIEVE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER WERE SOMEWHAT AHEAD WALKING AND THEN DETECTIVE LANGE AND THEN MYSELF TRAILING AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT TO THE FRONT DOOR....

Q WHAT HAPPENED -- YOU ALL WENT TO THAT FRONT DOOR AREA, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?
A I WAS STANDING TO THE REAR OF THE GROUP AND I'M NOT SURE IF VANNATTER OR PHILLIPS WERE KNOCKING. BUT FOR A COUPLE MINUTES, WE STOOD THERE AND KNOCKED AT THE FRONT DOOR AND RECEIVED NO RESPONSE....

Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A VANNATTER AND PHILLIPS LEFT THE FRONT DOOR AREA, AND WE ALL TURNED AND PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER STARTED WALKING BACK TOWARDS THE FRONT GATE AND THEN ENTERED A WALKWAY THAT WENT ALONGSIDE TO THE HOUSE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY ANIMALS?
A YES.
Q AND WHEN DID YOU DO THAT?
A RIGHT ABOUT WHEN WE TURNED. I BELIEVE WHEN WE TURNED TO WALK IN THAT PATH.
Q AND THAT PATH, IS IT PARALLEL TO ASHFORD OR ROCKINGHAM? THE PATH?
A I AM SORRY?
Q THE PATH THAT YOU TOOK, IS IT PARALLEL TO ASHFORD OR ROCKINGHAM?
A IT'S PARALLEL TO ASHFORD....

Q ALL RIGHT.
IF YOU WOULD, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU STEP DOWN. USING THE POINTER, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE SHOW US THE PATH THAT YOU TOOK WITH DETECTIVES PHILLIPS, VANNATTER AND LANGE AFTER YOU KNOCKED ON THE FRONT DOOR AND GOT NO RESPONSE.
WHEN I SAY YOU, I MEAN THEY, ALL OF YOU.
A THIS AREA THAT'S MARKED AS "ENTRANCE," THAT IS THE FRONT DOOR AREA. WE TURNED AROUND AND WALKED NORTHBOUND UNTIL WE COME TO THIS PATH THAT IS BEIGE IN COLOR ON THIS CHART AND IT'S SOMEWHAT IN KIND OF AN "S", CIRCLES AROUND TO THE REAR OF THE -- REAR OF THE RESIDENCE. IT CONTINUES AROUND AND STARTS TO GO SOUTHBOUND UP SOME STAIRS INTO A PATIO AREA NEXT TO THE POOL....

Q AND WHEN YOU GOT -- WHEN YOU WALKED THROUGH THE REAR YARD AREA, WERE YOU SEARCHING OR LOOKING AROUND? WHAT WERE YOU DOING?
A I WAS REALLY DOING NOTHING. I WAS JUST FOLLOWING THESE DETECTIVES THAT WERE WALKING ALONG THIS PATHWAY.
Q OKAY.
WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A I SAW THE LAWN AND THE PATHWAY AND WALKING INTO THE POOL AREA, JUST SAW THE POOL AREA. NOTHING -- NOTHING UNUSUAL.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A WE WALKED ONTO THE PATIO AREA. I THINK -- I THINK PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER PROBABLY SLOWED SOMEWHAT AND LOOKED AROUND, AND I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY VERBALIZE, BUT I KIND OF ASSUMED THAT SOMEONE SAW SOMETHING DOWN IN THIS AREA THAT THEY WANTED TO LOOK AT OR KNOCK ON. I DON'T KNOW.
THEY WALKED PAST THESE STEP AREA DOWN ONTO THIS AREA BY THE POOL AND DOWN TOWARDS THIS ROOM THAT IS DENOTED ON THIS CHART BY KAELIN'S ROOM (INDICATING)....

Q AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THE AREA MARKED -- WHEN THE FOUR OF YOU GOT TO THE AREA MARKED KAELIN'S ROOM, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I SAW DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LOOK TOWARDS THE DOOR AND HE WENT UP TO IT, AND I THINK ABOUT AT THE SAME TIME HE WAS ABOUT TO KNOCK, I COULD TELL IT WAS A GLASS PANE DOOR AND THERE WAS WOOD LOUVERS ON THE INSIDE AND SOME OF THEM WERE OPEN.
DETECTIVE PHILLIPS COULD -- HE SAW SOMETHING, HE TURNED BACK AND SAID, "THERE'S A GUY ON THE BED," OR, "THERE'S SOMEONE LYING ON THE BED," SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND HE KNOCKED ON THE DOOR AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER, SOMEONE CAME TO THE DOOR....

Q WHO IS THAT?
A KATO KAELIN.
Q AND AFTER HE ANSWERED THE DOOR, DID SOMEONE SPEAK TO HIM?
A YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.
Q AND DID YOU HEAR WHAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS SAID TO HIM?
A I WAS STANDING BEHIND AND ABOVE AND I HEARD -- I HEARD HIM ASK MR. KAELIN IF HE KNEW -- IF MR. SIMPSON WAS IN THE HOUSE, AND THEN I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS PHILLIPS OR ONE OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES MAKING A COMMENT THAT, "THERE MIGHT BE SOME SORT OF AN EMERGENCY, WE NEED TO KNOW," OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
Q AND WHAT DID -- AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I HEARD MR. KAELIN DIRECT ALL OF US TO MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER'S ROOM WHICH HE POINTED EAST DOWN THAT WALKWAY AMONG THE BUNGALOWS AND SAID SOMETHING LIKE, "MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER, ARNELLE'S ROOM IS DOWN THIS WAY," AND I THINK HE POINTED OR DIRECTED THEM DOWN THAT WAY....

Q AND WHEN HE DIRECTED THE -- WHEN HE DIRECTED ALL OF YOU TO ARNELLE'S ROOM, HE POINTED THAT OUT, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER AND LANGE WALKED IN THAT DIRECTION.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO?
A WELL, I CAME DOWN THESE STEPS AND I STAYED WITH MR. KAELIN....

Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A I ENGAGED MR. KAELIN IN CONVERSATION WHILE THE FIRST -- I BELIEVE ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I ASKED HIM IS, "DO YOU MIND IF I LOOK AROUND?" HE REPLIED, "NO."...

Q UH-HUH. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I ASKED MR. KAELIN IF THE WHITE BRONCO IN FRONT -- WHO IT BELONGS TO, AND HE SAID IT WAS O.J.'S, AND I ASKED HIM IF HE DROVE IT LAST NIGHT. BUT I BELIEVE BEFORE HE ANSWERED THAT, I THINK I ASKED HIM ANOTHER QUESTION.
Q AND WHAT WAS THAT?
A IF ANYTHING UNUSUAL HAPPENED LAST NIGHT....

Q SO WHEN YOU ASKED HIM DID ANYTHING UNUSUAL HAPPEN THE NIGHT BEFORE, WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?
A HE SAID ABOUT 10:45 P.M. THE PREVIOUS NIGHT, I BELIEVE HE SAID HE WAS TALKING ON THE PHONE. HE SAID HE HEARD A CRASH OR A THUMP ON HIS WALL. HE THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN EARTHQUAKE AND HIS PICTURE SHOOK.
Q AND DID HE POINT OUT TO THE PICTURE OR THE AREA ON THE WALL WHERE HE HEARD THAT CRASH?
A YES.
Q WHERE DID HE POINT TO?
A HE POINTED TO A PICTURE TOWARDS THE RIGHT SIDE OF HIS BED, WHICH WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE OF HIS BED. HIS BED WAS -- THE HEAD WAS ON THE SOUTH WALL AND THE FOOT WAS AT THE NORTH END OF THE ROOM....

Q OKAY. NOW, DID MR. KAELIN TELL YOU WHAT TIME HE HEARD THAT CRASHING SOUND OVER HIS BED ON THE WALL OVER HIS BED?
A HE SAID ABOUT 10:45 P.M.
Q AND DID HE POINT OUT THE PICTURE THAT HE SAID MOVED WHEN HE HEARD THAT CRASHING SOUND OR THAT THUMPING SOUND?
A HE POINTED OVER TOWARDS THE WALL, MADE A GESTURE AS HE WAS TALKING....

Q ...DID YOU HAVE SOME FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN?
A YES. WELL, MR. KAELIN OFFERED -- HE DESCRIBED THAT WHEN HE HEARD THAT NOISE, INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE, BUT NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED. SO HE WENT OUT TO INVESTIGATE.
Q DID HE TELL YOU WHERE HE WENT TO INVESTIGATE?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID HE TELL YOU ABOUT THAT?
A HE WENT AROUND THE NORTH SIDE PAST THE POOL, NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE AND WALKED THE SAME PATHWAY THAT WE HAD USED TO APPROACH HIS -- HIS ROOM.
Q AND THEN WHAT?
A HE SAID HE SAW A LIMO IN THE DRIVEWAY AND THEN HE PROCEEDED TOWARDS THE AREA WHERE HE WAS GOING TO INVESTIGATE, BUT HE DIDN'T DESCRIBE ANYTHING ANY FARTHER.
Q NOW, THE AREA ON THE WALL WHERE HE INDICATED HE HEARD THE THUMPS, COULD YOU TELL WHERE THAT -- THE EXTERIOR OF THAT POINT WOULD BE ON THE PROPERTY?
A NO.
Q AND DID HE TELL YOU HOW TO GET TO THAT POINT ON THE EXTERIOR PART OF THE PROPERTY?
A NO, HE DIDN'T.
Q SO AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT HE HAD GONE OUT TO INVESTIGATE THE THUMPS AND GOTTEN TO THE DRIVEWAY AND SEEN THE LIMO DRIVER, DID HE TELL YOU WHERE HE WENT AFTER THAT POINT?
A I DON'T RECALL THAT HE DID, NO.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I ASKED MR. KAELIN IF HE WOULD COME WITH ME, AND WE EXITED HIS ROOM AND I LOOKED TOWARDS THE MAIN HOUSE AND I SAW THERE WAS AN OPEN DOOR, THE REAR OFF THE PATIO....

Q SO YOU WALKED IN THROUGH THE REAR DOOR?
A YES.
Q AND THAT WAS WITH MR. KAELIN?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT DID HAPPEN NEXT AFTER YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE?
A WHEN I FIRST WALKED IN, I NOTICED THIS AREA, YOU STEP DOWN WHERE THERE'S A LARGE BILLIARD TABLE AND THEN DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF WHERE WE CAME IN, THERE'S A BAR AREA WITH FOUR OR FIVE BAR STOOLS. AND I ASKED MR. KAELIN TO SIT IN ONE OF THOSE STOOLS AND RELAX AND SOMEBODY WOULD TALK TO HIM IN A MINUTE....

Q AFTER YOU GOT -- YOU PUT KATO -- YOU GOT -- YOU TOOK KATO TO THE BAR AREA, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I LEFT HIM AT THAT LOCATION AND I TRIED TO FIND WHERE THE DETECTIVE -- THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES HAD WALKED TO.
Q DID YOU FIND THEM?
A I WALKED TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR. THERE'S A HALLWAY TYPE AREA. AND AS I WALKED PAST THERE, THERE WAS AN OPEN DOORWAY, AND I SAW ALL THREE DETECTIVES IN THE KITCHEN AREA....

Q AND COULD YOU SEE WHAT THEY WERE DOING IN THERE?
A I BELIEVE ONE DETECTIVE WAS ON THE PHONE, THAT DETECTIVE NOT BEING VANNATTER. I BELIEVE PHILLIPS WAS ON THE PHONE, BUT I CAN'T BE POSITIVE ABOUT THAT.
Q DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OR DETECTIVE LANGE BEFORE LEAVING THE FRONT DOOR?
A NO.
Q WHAT WAS THE -- YOU SPOKE TO DETECTIVE -- YOU WERE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, LANGE AND VANNATTER AT THE POINT THAT YOU FIRST WENT TO MR. KAELIN'S ROOM I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES.
Q AND WAS THAT THE LAST TIME THAT YOU SPOKE TO THEM OR YOU WERE WITH THEM BEFORE YOU WENT OUT THE FRONT DOOR? DID YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH THEM BEFORE LEAVING KATO IN THE BAR AND GOING OUT THE FRONT DOOR?
A YES. I MADE A COMMENT TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER.
Q UH-HUH.
AND WHAT WAS THAT COMMENT, SIR?
A SAID, "PHIL, WOULD YOU TALK TO THIS GUY AT THE BAR?"
Q AND OTHER THAN THAT, DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE VANNATTER, DETECTIVE LANGE OR DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?
A NO, NOT AT THAT TIME.
Q SO AFTER THAT REMARK TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER, YOU WENT OUT THE FRONT DOOR?
A YES.
Q AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE DID YOU DO THAT?
A I WAS TRYING TO ORIENT MYSELF FROM WHERE THIS SOUTH WALL OF KATO'S BEDROOM COULD BE LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY.
Q ALL RIGHT.
YOU INDICATED EARLIER, SIR, THAT WHEN YOU LOOKED INSIDE THE REAR CARGO AREA OF THE BRONCO, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US A SHOVEL AND A PIECE OF PLASTIC. DO YOU RECALL THAT, SIR?
A YES, MA'AM....

Q BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT.
CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT I'M SHOWING YOU HERE, PEOPLE'S 113?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT IS IT?
A THAT LOOKS LIKE THE SHOVEL THAT I SAW IN THE REAR CARGO AREA OF THE BRONCO....

COURT ADJOURNED UNTIL MONDAY, 3/13/95.

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; MONDAY, MARCH 13, 1995
9:20 A.M.
 

THE COURT: ...ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU PLEASE RESUME THE WITNESS STAND....
 

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MS. CLARK:
Q LET'S SEE. I THINK WHERE WE LEFT OFF ON FRIDAY, SIR, YOU WERE SHOWING THE JURY THE SHOVEL AND THE PLASTIC AND THE WOOD, THE PIECE OF WOOD THAT YOU SAW NEAR THE BRONCO.
DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A YES, I DO.
Q NOW, FIRST OF ALL, THE PLASTIC, YOU INDICATED -- WHERE DID YOU RECOVER THAT FROM?
A THE --
Q WHAT PART OF THE BRONCO?
YOU DIDN'T RECOVER IT.
WHERE DID YOU SEE IT?
A I SAW IT IN THE RIGHT SIDE OR THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE REAR CARGO AREA, ALONG THE SIDE OF THE VEHICLE CARGO AREA.
Q AND THAT WAS -- WAS IT INSIDE SOMETHING?
A IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS IN SOME SORT OF A POCKET.
Q OKAY. YOU DID NOT RECOVER THAT ITEM?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q AND DID YOU RECOVER THE SHOVEL?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q DID YOU RECOVER THE WOOD?
A NO.

Q THAT WAS LEFT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO RECOVER?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q OKAY.
NOW, THAT PLASTIC, DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW WHETHER IT BELONGS IN A BRONCO OR ANYTHING ABOUT IT?
A WELL, NOW I DO.
Q AND WHAT IS THAT?
A IT IS THE SPARE TIRE BAG....

Q WHAT ABOUT THAT SHOVEL? STANDARD EQUIPMENT ALSO?
A NO. I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.
Q NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN IN WHICH HE INFORMED YOU ABOUT THE THUMPS ON THE WALL.
DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A YES.
Q WHAT TIME DID HE SAY HE HEARD THOSE THUMPS?
A 10:45 P.M.

Q OKAY.
YOU -- I THINK YOU HAD TESTIFIED EARLIER THAT YOU BROUGHT HIM INTO THE HOUSE WITH YOU AND PUT HIM IN THE BAR AREA?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
A THEN I WALKED TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR AREA WHICH PASSES THE KITCHEN.
Q AND THEN WHAT?
A I SAW DETECTIVE VANNATTER IN THE KITCHEN. I TOLD DETECTIVE VANNATTER. I SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT, "PHIL, TALK TO THIS GUY AT THE BAR."
Q OKAY. DID YOU TELL HIM WHAT TO TALK ABOUT?
A NO.
Q AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I WALKED OUT THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE....

Q WHEN YOU LEFT -- WHEN YOU EXITED THE FRONT DOOR, WHERE DID YOU GO?
A I WALKED OUT INTO THE DRIVEWAY AND I LOOKED TO MY LEFT TO SEE WHERE THE PROPERTY ENDED.

Q ALL RIGHT.
SIR, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE STEP DOWN AND SHOW US THE ROUTE YOU TOOK WHEN YOU EXITED THE FRONT DOOR....
A I EXITED THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE WHERE ON THIS CHART IT SAYS "ENTRANCE." I EXITED GOING WEST.
I WALKED ONTO THE DRIVEWAY AND THEN LOOKED SOUTH.
Q NOW, WHY DID YOU LOOK SOUTH?
A WELL, FROM WHERE I HAD COME FROM IN KAELIN'S ROOM, THE WALL THAT HE HEARD THE CRASH OR THE THUMP WAS ON THE SOUTH WALL.
Q UH-HUH.
AND THEN WHERE DID YOU GO?
A I WALKED DOWN TO THE DRIVEWAY AND I STARTED WALKING DOWN TOWARDS THE GARAGE. THE GARAGE COMES SOMEWHAT OUT FROM THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE.
I WALKED AROUND THE GARAGE AND WENT DOWN TO THE SOUTHERN MOST PART OF THE PROPERTY AND THEN I LOOKED TO MY LEFT, WHICH WOULD BE EAST.
Q OKAY. AND YOU LOOKED TO YOUR LEFT EASTWARD BECAUSE WHY?
A THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE DIRECTION GOING BACK TOWARDS KAELIN'S ROOM.
Q WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I SAW A PATHWAY. IT LOOKED VERY NARROW AND DARK AND THERE WAS A CYCLONE FENCE THAT RAN ALONG THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE WITH LOOKED LIKE PLANTS FROM THE RESIDENCE TO THE SOUTH THAT HAD OVERGROWN TOWARDS THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE.
Q AND WERE THERE ANY GATES THERE?
A I BELIEVE THERE WAS A GATE THAT WAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT IN HERE, (INDICATING). I BELIEVE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN HERE, (INDICATING). I BELIEVE IT WAS LAID UP AGAINST SOME -- I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT DEBRIS WAS THERE. WHAT WAS THERE, BUT IT WAS THERE, YES.
Q SO IT WAS NOT CLOSED, THE GATE?
A NO.
Q AND SO WHAT DID YOU DO? WHERE DID YOU GO?
A WELL, I TOOK OUT MY FLASHLIGHT AND I STARTED WALKING DOWN THE PATH TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE RESIDENCE ARCHITECTURE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE KAELIN'S WALL MIGHT HAVE BEEN.
Q NOW, WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE FROM THAT FIRST GATE AREA IN TERMS OF FARTHER DOWN THE WALKWAY? WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE?
A WELL, I COULD SEE THERE WAS A LONG WALKWAY, BUT THIS WAS A LITTLE ELEVATED, SO I WAS LOOKING SOMEWHAT DOWNWARD. I SAW A LONG PATH, A LONG DARK PATH COVERED WITH LEAVES.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU EXPECT