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(Read into evidence at the trial on December 5 and 6, 1984) DEPOSITION
TESTIMONY OF LARRY FLYNT DIRECT
EXAMINATION: BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Mr.
Flynt, what is your full name? A. Christopher
Columbus Cornwallis I.P.Q. Harvey
H. Apache Pugh. They call me Larry
Flynt. And all those historical figures. Q. Are
you known as Larry Flynt? A. No.
Jesus H. Flynt, Esquire. Q. Have
you ever called yourself Larry Flynt? A. Used
to, but it was spelled with an
"I" then. F-L-I-N-T. Now
it's F-L-Y-N-T. I have two (2) birth
certificates. Q. Were
you born in Kentucky? A. No. Q. Have
you ever served in the United States
Navy? A. Hmm -- I'm not sure. Q. Have
you ever lived in Dayton, Ohio? A. No,
I was hatched in Dayton, Ohio. * * * Q. You
do not?
Do you wish to pretend that you don't understand the
question? A. (Nods
head.) Q. Do
you know where you are? A. (Shakes
head.) Q. Do
you know what day today is, Mr. Flynt? A. (Shakes
head.) Q. Do
you know who the man is to whom you
pointed earlier and whom you said knocked out your tooth last night? A. (Shakes
head.) Q. Are
you determined, Mr. Flynt, to make a
mockery out of this deposition? A. (Nods
head.) Q. Do
you wish to pretend that you don't
understand my questions? A. (Nods
head, then shakes head.) * * * MR.
ISAACMAN: If the witness needs a break, or he needs to consult a
doctor, he's
going to be allowed to do it. MR.
GRUTMAN: No. Listen, Mr. Isaacman, neither you nor I are doctors, but
it is
apparent to me, as I think it is to everybody in this room, that this
witness
is making a charade out of this deposition.
And that with you and with Mr. Kahn, or with himself, he
will resort to
anything that he possibly can to pretend that he doesn't understand
questions
and to avoid meeting the requirements
that Judge Turk imposed, that he answer questions. Now,
I'm not going to allow that to happen.
I'm going to endeavor to ask this man questions. And fortunately, a videotape is being made,
and people will be able to observe whether this man is what he pretends
to be,
or whether in reality he is shamming so as not to answer questions. * * * MR.
ISAACMAN: -- and if he requests medical attention, like any witness, he
ought
to be allowed to have it, and I say he should have it. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Do
you know who that man is talking? A. He's
an idiot. Q. Do
you know who it is? A. He's
an idiot. Q. Do
you know his name? A. I've
tried to fire him ever since he's been
here. Q. Do
you know his name? A. No,
I don't know his name. Q. You
called him Alan a moment ago. A. Yeah,
Alan Graham. He's the guy with the sex
tapes. I got a bedsore needs changed, and
I need
some medication, you know. Now if you
want to get the medication for me, change my bedsore, and put me in the
soft
cuffs here so I can do a depression, I'll proceed. But if
you're going to treat me like a fool, I'm going to act like
one. Q. No,
Mr. Flynt, we're going -- A. (Interposing)
Mr. Grutman, you and I don't
have a problem. Our problem is setting
right over there, two of them. And you
know the difference between them? One's
a wet snitch, and one's a dry one. Q. Who
are you referring to? A. Mr.
Kahn and Mr. Isaacman. Q. I
thought you told me you didn't know his
name. A. I
don't know him. Q. You
called him Alan Graham. A. I
don't know him. They're all the same. Q. You
know who I am, don't you? A. Yep.
You're an asshole. Q. So
you've said in your magazine. Not once,
but several times, right? A. Yeah. * * * MR.
GRUTMAN: You and your client have obviously determined to turn this
into a
circus or some kind of a freak show. * * * Q. Mr.
Flynt, are you aware that you are a
defendant -- MR.
ISAACMAN: (Interposing) No, no, no, no, no. Q. --
in a lawsuit entitled Reverend Jerry
Falwell -- MR.
ISAACMAN: (Interposing) I instruct you not to answer any questions of
this man
until I have the right on your behalf to examine Mr. Kaiser. Q. --
against Larry Flynt and Hustler,
Incorporated? A. I
refuse to answer that question until we have
addressed the issue of
medical care. Now, I may be crazy, but I
ain't stupid, Mr. Grutman. * * * Q. And
everything that was published in Hustler
magazine in those years was material that, at least, had to be
submitted to you
for final approval, isn't that true? A. Everything
that has ever went in Hustler
should have had my approval, and anything that went in that did not
have my approval,
the son of a bitch is either dead, got the shit kicked out of him, or
he's out
of a job. Q. Would
that be true up to the present time,
Mr. Flynt? A. Ah,
we're going to deal with the present time
a little later. I haven't seen any of my
magazines since I've been down here, with the exception of the January
issue,
and one other one that they let me see. It's
all part of their behavior modification program back here. * * * Q. Well,
then, I take it from that answer, Mr.
Flynt, that it is your testimony that surely through the November of
1983
issue, everything that went into that magazine had to have, and did
have, your
final approval? MR.
ISAACMAN: Object to the form of the question. A. Everything
that is ever went in did have, and has got, my
final
approval. * * * Q. For
the moment, my interest is not about ionization
Mr. Flynt, -- A. (Interposing)
It should be. Q. --
It's about your knowledge or awareness as
a publisher of the potential liabilities for defamation.
Was that something about which you had
interested yourself prior to November of 1983? A. Yes. Q. And
had you consulted on that matter, without
telling me what they told you, but had you ever spoken to lawyers about
it? A. No. MR.
ISAACMAN: I'm going to object to that.
That invades an attorney/client privilege. Q. I
didn't ask for the contents, just simply
whether you'd had some discussion about it with a lawyer. A. Yesh,
with a lot of lawyers, but the
discussion -- MR.
ISAACMAN: Well, you're asking for the contents, I object to the
question on the
basis that it invades the attorney/client privilege. A. The
discussion that I'm talking about didn't
take place with any lawyer, it took place with John Fitzgerald Kennedy,
former
president of the United States. * * * Q. Is
there some connection between Vicki Morgan
and Reverend Falwell? A. Certainly
is. Q. You
have any knowledge or information that
there is some connection between
Reverend Falwell and Vicki Morgan? A. I
do. Q. What
do you say that connection is, Mr.
Flynt? A. Well,
let's just say that they were taking
their orders from the same person indirectly.
If you want me to expound on that, I will. * * * Q. In
any event, Mr. Flynt, do you have any
information that Reverend Falwell ever committed incest with his mother? A. Yes. Q. You
do have that information? A. (Nods
head.) Q. Who
provided that information to you? A. Captain
Joe Sivley, Bureau of Prisons. Q. Pardon? A. Captain
Joe Sivley, Bureau of Prisons. Q. He
told you that Reverend Falwell had incest
with his mother? A. Ah,
no.
Lieutenant White did, Lieutenant White works in
Springfield. Okay? And
Lieutenant White also works for the Bureau of Prisons. Q. Did
you know Lieutenant White before the
November, 1983 issue of Hustler was published? A. No. Q. Did
you know Captain Sivley before the
November, 1983 issue of Hustler was published? A. Yes. Q. When
did you meet Captain Sivley? A. We
talked mostly on the radio. Q. CB radio? A. Huh?
(What?) Q. CB
radio? A. The
lunchbox. Q. Now,
have you ever seen -- A. (Interposing)
You know what a lunchbox is,
Mr. Grutman? * * * Q. On
the very top, it says
"Okay". Are those your
initials, "LF"? A. I
will not okay it unless it's been through
the copy department, idiot. Now, it's my
initials, I okayed every single word of it, but I didn't write a word
of it. Q. I
didn't ask, for the moment, whether you
composed it, I asked only if those were your initials.
Are they? A. Yes. * * * Q. Is
that because you are indifferent to the
consequences of publishing things about people which may not be true,
if you accuse
them of a crime? MR.
ISAACMAN: That's an argumentative-type question. A. That's
an argumentative -- how in the world
can I answer if you don't shut up, Isaacman? DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. From
your study, or your interest in the law
of libel as it affected publishers, did you know that it was -- what
did you
know as to whether a publisher had the right to publish a statement
which was
false about somebody committing a crime? MR.
ISAACMAN: I'm
objecting; it's irrelevant. The question
is whether it was an intent to
be a true statement or was intended to be a parody, that's the question. A. I
don't care, Mr. Grutman. I didn't care,
Mr. Grutman. Q. You
didn't care? A. Didn't
care then, and don't care now. Q. Okay.
Do you care, Mr. Flynt, about hurting the feelings of
people about whom
you write things in your magazine? A. Yes. * * * Q. What
efforts did you make to ascertain
whether the statements contained in Exhibit 1 were true or not before
you
caused it to be published? A. Well,
I met with Mary Calderon Waseka, and
Masters and Johnson, Morton M. Hunt, Dr. James Prescott, who helped
design and
build this prison here. And I
know a lot about, you know, behavior modification, and I know a lot
about the
origins of violence, where they came from, and that our inability to
deal with
out religious convictions was largely rooted in our inability to deal
with our
sexual pervasion, whatever it might be, or perversion. But,
as you and I both know, one man's perversion might be very well be
another
man's marriage. And to
get right to the point, and answer that question, so you could more clearly understand where I'm coming
from, everybody knows I had a relationship with Ruth Carter Stapleton,
but
nobody knows what that relationship was. And
I'll tell you what it was. Q. Please,
Mr. Flynt. A. I
think it's very important. Q. To
answer my question? A. Yes,
to answer -- Q. As
to what -- A. (Interposing)
You asked -- you asked if I had
done any research, you may not have used those words, but you asked if
I had
looked in -- to obtain any kind of evidence before I -- Q. As
to the truth of what you published about
Reverend Falwell in this ad? A. Yes.
And I'm telling you that what I did was I did an awfully
lot of
research, because every college campus that I ever spoke on, there was,
you
know, Gloria Steinman's (sic) dykes passing out flyers, you know,
accusing me
of every ill that society embodies, and I was really concerned if Hustler
in any way, or magazines like it, had any harmful effect on the
consumption,
whether it be -- by what sex, or children, or animals, or whatever. I had
my own opinion, and I knew that it wasn't harmful in any way, but I
felt that I
needed to convince the government so that we might do away with the
concept of obscenity. So,
what I did was I researched the sexual behavior, attitudes, and values
of people
like Mr. Farwell. I called them the
Farwellians of the world. And I
had the support of the Federal government in doing this research,
because they
all work for me. Some of them lost their
jobs, like Dr. James Prescott when he wrote the article on child abuse
for Hustler,
but he didn't care because he found another one. And
when Ruth Carter Stapleton came to me, it was part of my research
program, and
she says, "Mr. Flynt, you're going to have to say, 'bring Jesus into
your
life." And I
told her, I says, "Ruth, say 'bring George, or John inside you' and
it'll
feel just as good." And I
opened up a copy of Hustler and she says, "Oh, my God." And I
says, "What you're doing, the inner healing that you're talking about
is
nothing more than sexual healing." Marvin Gaye sang about it, and a lot
of
people sing about it, you know, whether it be George Jones, Boy George,
or
whatever. Now,
you asked the question, and I'm demanding the time to answer it, and
it's got
to do with our sexual values. And I am
telling you that that is what it's all about. Boy,
you crawled out of one and you
been trying to crawl back in one ever since, and eventually you're
going to realize
that. And
most of the people that work here in the B.O.P. already know that, and
they
already know that a few people's got to drink out of a commode over
there with
dome [sic] cigarette butts and shit in it, and it ain't going to be me. Q. What
specific information did you find out
about Reverend Falwell committing incest with his mother prior to the
publication
in November of 1983? Would you please
answer that question? A. Ah,
yes, I was -- I'm on restricted mail
correspondence here, and when I was in Springfield, I was not on
restricted
mail -- Q. (Interposing)
Please, answer my
question. You weren't here before
November of '83. A. Unh-hunh.
(Yes.) Q. I
want to know what specific information you
had prior to the November, 1983 issue of Hustler magazine that
indicated, as a matter of fact, that Reverend Falwell had committed
incest with
his mother. Now, please, answer that
question. A. Okay.
What you want, you know, is a document that's in my room
over
there. So, let the record reflect that I
will testify about what's on the document and
provide you with the names when Captain Sivley will permit
you to take it with you. Now,
it's over there, and he says I can mail it out, but he's a damn liar,
because
they won't let it go out. Q. Do
you say you have a document in your room
at the place where you are now, which answers the question I have just
put to
you, namely, the specific information which you found out prior to the
November
'83 issue, which indicated that Reverend Falwell as a matter of fact
had
committed incest with his mother. Is
that what you're saying, sir? A. Yes. Q. It's
in your room, now? A. It
is in my personal property. Q. In
your room, here, in this facility? A. I
never know what I'm going to find in my
room when I get back there. It is a FCI
Butner, and in the Bureau of Prisons. I
am not trying to hedge the question, and you'll find a wedding band
with it,
and a pair of glasses that don't belong to Hinkley. Q. Is
it in your room, now? WITNESS:
Captain Sivley, is it in my room? CAPTAIN
SIVLEY: I don't know whether -- WITNESS:
Ah, you going to have to depose him. MR.
GRUTMAN: All right, fine. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Do
you remember what specific information you had? A. Yes. Q. Well,
tell me what specific information you
had prior to the publication of November of 1983, that Reverend Falwell
had
committed incest with his mother. Q. Ah,
I have an affidavit signed by three
different people from Lynchburg, Virginia -- Q. Yes. A. --
Okay, stating, okay, that purely and
simply, that they had witnessed this act by Mr. Farwell. Q. You
have that affidavit? A. Yes,
I do. Q. Where
is it? A. It's
in my personal property here at FCI
Butner. Q. In
your room? A. Yes,
or if it's not in my room, the Captain's
got it. It's outside my room. * * * Q. Does
anybody have a copy of this affidavit
signed by three people whom you say, under oath, gave you an affidavit
attesting
to the fact that they witnessed -- A. (Interposing)
You better believe they did. Q. --
Reverend Falwell -- who has the copies? A. Well,
several people's got a copy. Q. Who? A. Okay,
Attorney Joe Walsh in Dayton, Ohio, has
a copy. Q. Yes? A. Now,
Attorney Jerry Paul of North Carolina
has a copy. Attorney Bill Kunsler has a
copy, and Attorney Paul Ennis of North Carolina has a
copy.
And I'll send the whole world a copy, if they'll give me
any goddamn
stamps. Q. Mr.
Flynt, you know that that ad is the
subject matter of this lawsuit, do you not? A. Yes,
I do. Q. And
you know that you are being defended by
Mr. Isaacman and his firm, do you not? A. (No
answer.) Q. Do
you know that? A. In
this proceeding, yes, but I said in the
beginning, let the record reflect I have been denied counsel of my
choice, and
access to the law library at FCI Butner. Q. Have
you produced a copy of this affidavit
that you're referring to, signed by three people attesting to their
having observed
Reverend Falwell committing incest with his mother?
Have you provided that to either Mr. Isaacman
or anyone connected with him? A. Yes. Q. Who? A. Mr.
Bill Willingham, Mr. Captain Sivley, Mr.
Massenburg, and P. A. Kaiser over there. Q. Okay.
You have referred to the four functionaries of this
institution who are
sitting in this room while you are being deposed. A. Yep. Q. When
did you give it to Captain Sivley? A. Ah,
when Robert Zonner, attorney Robert
Zonner, Washington, D.C., ah, made his first trip down here, okay? Q. Okay. When did you provide it
to
Mr. Willingham? A. Ah,
I provided it to Mr. Willingham at the
time I was getting my root canal done in the dentist's office. Q. All
right.
And to Mr. Kaiser, when did you provide it to him? A. Hmm,
Mr. Kaiswer's only seen it; I didn't --
he's not allowed to touch my legal materials. Q. If
you provided it to these people, none of
whom were your lawyers, why did you withhold it from Mr. Kahn or Mr.
Isaacman,
who are here in this facility, and whom you don't have to mail it to? Why did you not provide it to them? A. Because
after Captain Sivley seen what it
was, he refused to allow Mr. Kahn and Mr. Isaacman into FCI Butner. Q. Do
you remember the names of the people who
signed the affidavit? A. I
certainly do. Q. What
are their names? A. I
am not going to tell you, 'til you get the
paper over here. Q. Mr.
Flynt, it's a relevant question, you
promised to give me a true deposition -- A. (Interposing)
I will not answer 'cause the
boys are scared to death, okay? Q. Oh,
it was three boys? A. Well,
I don't know, we could check them and
see. Q. Do
you remember the contents of the document? A. Yes. Q. When
do you say the incest took place? A. Ah,
Farwell was very young. Q. What's
that? A. Farwell
was very young. Q. Yes.
How long ago was that? A. Hell,
I don't know what his age was. Q. Well,
since you've read this affidavit, which
attests to having observed the specific incident, tell me what the
affidavit
says, so far as you recall, as to when this alleged thing occurred. A. Okay,
here's what the affidavit says to the
best of my recollection. Q. When? A. To
the best of my recollection, the affidavit
says that Mr. Farwell was at the age of puberty, thereabouts, and that
they
caught him masturbating in an outhouse, looking at a picture of his
mother in a
Sears and Roebuck catalog. Q. His
mother's picture was in the Sears and
Roebuck catalog? A. No,
he had it hid in the Sears and Roebuck
catalog. Q. I
see. A. You
know how sometimes they buy Hustler
and put it in the Wall Street Journal? I guess that's what
Farwell was
doing in the outhouse. And so these
three boys, ah, used to tease him all the time about catching him
playing with
himself. And
they decided to watch him one day to see, you know, what he would do. And so, his mother caught him once, and she taught him a little
about the birds and the bees, you know. Q. Do
these witnesses say that his mother had
intercourse with him and they observed it? A. Yes. Q. Where
did they say that it occurred? A. I
believe they said it occurred in Missouri,
but I'm not sure. We'll have to check
the document. Q. Does
the affidavit indicate how these boys
who saw this were able to have observed this incident taking place? A. Yeah,
they were watching. Q. Where
were they watching from? A. Through
the window of the house. Q. And
they could see into the outhouse? A. No,
this happened -- this -- the first time
was in the outhouse, okay, with the picture, you see.
And he was only masturbating. The
next time, he was a little older, and it was in -- it took place in the
house. Q. So
these same boys who saw him masturbating
with a picture of his mother in the Sears and Roebuck catalog, are the
same
people who saw him having intercourse with his mother, right? A. Two
of them are, the other one -- Q. Don't
you think that's stretches credulity
just a little further than anybody would swallow it? A. What's
credulity? MR. ISAACMAN: I object, argumentative. A. What's
credulity, sir? MR.
ISAACMAN: Ambiguous. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. At
the time that this ad was approved by you,
nothing contained in this so-called affidavit was known to you at the
time, is
that correct? A. Hmm,
yes, it was known to me, I just didn't
have the proof. Q. My
question is you didn't have any proof at the
time that the ad was published to indicate -- A. (Interposing)
I most certainly did, but I
didn't have it in writing. MR.
ISAACMAN: I'm going to object to the characterizing it as an ad, it's a
parody
of an ad. If you refer to it as Exhibit
1, we won't have any problem. WITNESS:
Well, we can make it a real one now that we got the evidence, Isaacman. Just let him roll. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. When
did you speak to these boys who made the
affidavit? A. Ah,
at my house in Columbus, Ohio on or
about, ah, January, 1978. Q. And
can you give me the names of those boys? A. I
can give you the names of one, okay. Q. What's
his name? A. Charles
F. Galbreath, okay. Now, he is going to be
-- he -- the reason
why I'm giving you his name is because he is a judge, okay. From
the State of Tennessee. Q. Spell
his last name for me. A. G-A-L-B-R-E-A-T-H,
Galbreath. Like John Kenneth Galbreath,
okay. Q. All
right. A. And
he left the bench to come over here and
find out what was going on. And he
brought -- Howard is one of the people's names, okay. Now
the other one's name is Moore, okay? Q. Unh-hunh.
(Yes.) A. And
now the other one's name is Mr.
Massenburg, who's sitting right over there. Q. Oh,
he's one of the affiants himself? A. Huh?
(What?) Q. Mr.
Massenburg is one of the people who
signed the affidavit? A. Well,
I had him down in the visiting room the
last time to witness the third affidavit, and his signature is on it,
because
they won't mail the one out. They won't
mail
the real one out, Mr. Grutman. So I had
to keep getting the same one notarized over and over again. So, he
can testify as to what's on that document, or he can go over to my room
and get
it. Q. Okay.
Would you tell me, Mr. Flynt, why, if this information
about Reverend
Falwell and his mother was known to you since 1978, you waited until
1983, to
publish it to the world? A. Ah,
I was waiting to settle a score. Q. I
beg your pardon? A. I
was waiting to settle a score. Q. To
settle the -- A. To
settle a score. Q. Oh,
to settle a score? A. Unh-hunh.
(Yes.) Q. You
mean you were trying to get even with
Reverend Falwell? A. Yeah. Q. Has
Reverend Falwell, to your knowledge, Mr.
Flynt, ever made any personal remarks about your mother? A. Hmm,
no, but he did about my father, and
that's no difference. Q. Has
he ever made any remarks about your
personal sexual practices? A. Yes. Q. What
do you say Reverend Falwell has said
about your personal, private life? A. He
says it's abominable. Q. What
you personally do with Althea is
abominable, he has said? A. Hmm,
my conduct is abominable, he says. Q. Okay.
Now you said a moment ago that you were waiting to even a
-- settle a
score with him, is that correct? A. Unh-hunh.
(Yes.) Q. When
you use that phrase, does that mean you
were trying to get even with him? A. Yep. Q. So
I take it from that, or those several
answers, that when you published this, this was not intended to be a
parody, it
was intended to be the publication of the truth, right? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection, it's argumentative, and it speaks for itself. A. Yes. I didn't even want to put
the word "parody" on there. * * * A. No. Q. Who
wrote the text? A. Ah,
well, I guess you would have to say that
a group of people wrote it. Now, if you
want me to give you the group of those people's names, I will. Q. Is
it your testimony, Mr. Flynt, that this
text, which is on Exhibit 2, was not written by one person, yes or no? A. It
was written by one person with input. When
you publish a magazine, unless you're
God, you need some input from other people. Q. Who
was the person who composed the text,
Bruce Helford? A. Ah,
no. Q. Who? A. Dr.
Madalyn Murray O'Hair. Q. You
say Dr. Madalyn Murray O'Hair wrote the
words that are in this Exhibit 2, and on Exhibit 1? A. No,
she submitted some documents which we
complied them from. And I told Helford
to compile the documents and to make the copy from the documents. Q. So,
now you're telling me that Madalyn Murray
O'Hair submitted some documents to you? A. Yes. Q. Are
those documents still in the possession
of Hustler? A. Yes. Q. I
call for their production. WITNESS:
Mr. Kahn, what you need is a copy of the letter that Richard Nixon wrote to Cardinal Cooke asking what he
was going to do about the tuition tax credit on parochial schools and
you'll
find a copy of that letter in the file, and you'll also find a copy of
the New
York Police Department's report when John Lennon was murdered, and they
went to
Ronald Reagan to ask for a comment. And he
was in Cardinal Cooke's apartment, teaching Cardinal Cooke how to bite
the big
one. You'll
need a copy of that police report from the New York -- Q. What
do you mean "teaching Cardinal
Cooke to bite the big one"? A. It's
called Bravo Eleven and you don't have a
high enough security clearance to talk about that. Q. Well,
what do you mean, Mr. Flynt? A. Well,
I -- if the Captain will let me explain
it to you, I will. Q. Nobody's
preventing you from explaining it,
so tell us, what does "bite the big one" mean? A. I
have to have a radio, or a cord, or
something. That's up to the
Captain. If he wants to get -- if he
gets a line -- if the Captain's got a box up there, if he brings it in
here,
I'll talk to Reagan on the phone. Q. Okay.
Now, Mr. Flynt -- A. Okay?
Now, he's got a radio out there that he lets me use. If he'll bring it in here, I'll let you talk to Ronald Reagan. Now,
you understand what I'm saying? And I
ain't crazy. Q. Were
you present when this text that you
approved was composed? A. Pardon? Q. Were
you present when this text which you
approved on Exhibit 2 was composed? A. No. Q. Was
it composed by a committee? A. Yes. Q. Did
they all meet together and write it up? A. Yes. Q. And
who was on the committee? A. Ah,
Stephanie Ross, Greg Ross, Steve
Sesadian. Q. Anybody
else? A. Ah,
yeah, Billy Idol, Yoko Ono. Q. Yes. A. And
David Lee Roth and Ted Nugent. Q. How
about David Kahn? A. Ah,
no, he didn't have a thing to do with
it. He tried to keep it from going in. Q. You
mean he thought that there was something
wrong about doing it? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. A. And
a congressman, Larry McDonald,
Congressman Larry McDonald, don't leave him out. And
don't leave Jimmy Carter out of there. And
don't leave Bryan Huff out of there, neither.
And don't leave Jean Reaves out of there.
And don't leave Robin Barr. Q. Is
that your son or your wife? A. No,
that's his mother. Q. I
see.
They're all on the committee that composed this text? A. This
is the mother I wasn't married to, this is the
one that
adopted him after the other mother sent him away. "Cause
see, Joseph Barr, Jr. is a nigger." Q. He's
a what? A. He's
a nigger. Q. A
what? A. He's
a nigger, but he's mine. You see what I'm
saying? And I'm his natural father. * * * Q. Mr.
Flynt, earlier today, you said that this
Falwell Campari business was published when you were getting set to
even a
score? A. Unh-hunh
(Yes.) * * * Q. Do
you believe that because of your aversion
to the Bible and organized religion, that that gives you license to
hold up to
ridicule and scorn leaders of religious movements? A. You're
goddamn right. MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. It's
irrelevant. It's argumentative. A. Free
expression is absolute. Q. It's
absolute? Including the dissemination -- A. Unequivocably. Q. Fine.
Doesn't that include, Mr. Flynt, disseminating things
about the private
lives of religious leaders? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection, It's irrelevant. A. You're
damn right. MR.
ISAACMAN: It doesn't relate to this proceeding. A. I
will drop a dime on my mommy. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY
MR. GRUTMAN:
Q. You'll
drop a what? A. A
dime on my mother. Q. On
your mother? A. What
that means is I am a wet snitch. Q. A
what? A. A
wet snitch. Q. Okay.
Have you also said, Mr. Flynt, speaking about your
magazine, that
"Parody has become so real, we're going to stop doing parody"? Have you ever said that? A. Yeah. Q. And
the magazine that you spoke of that
"we were going to stop doing it" in was Hustler. Right? A. Yeah. * * * Q. Mr.
Flynt, do you agree that there is a
difference between contending vigorously, in a sort of debate, with
people who
have different ideas, and arguing about one concept, as against
another, in
distinction with making personalized attacks on the private lives of
people
with whom you disagree? A. Mr.
Grutman -- MR.
ISAACMAN: Question is ambiguous and -- WITNESS:
Shut up, Isaacman, Mr. Grutman MR.
ISAACMAN: I'm making an objection. WITNESS:
I understood his question. It wasn't
vague. It wasn't vague. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Please
answer it. A. Look,
I'll answer this question the way you
ask it. Q. Right. A. The
truth is an absolute defense. And if it offends you or Jerry Farwell, then the two of you
have a mental problem,
not me. Q. Let's
see.
Going down to Exhibit 1.
Question, "Falwell: My first time was in an outhouse
outside My
question is, at the time that you published this, did you have any
proof that
the first time Jerry Falwell ever had a sexual experience was in an
outhouse,
outside A. Yes. Q. What
was the proof that you -- * * * Q. Now,
at the time that this appeared in Hustler
magazine and you approved it, what proof did you have, specifically,
that the
first time Jerry Falwell had a sexual experience was in an outhouse,
outside A. I
had an affidavit and a picture. Q. A
picture of what? A. But,
I had a veriable affidavit. Q. What
was the picture of? A. It's
in my property. Q. What
did it depict? A. It
is in my property. * * * Q. What
did the photograph you referred to show? A. Okay.
Now, I'm telling you that there's several photographs back
there, okay,
in my property. Okay.
And you can see them all. And
believe me, Farwell is one
of them. Okay.
And Pat Boone is another one.
Okay. Q. What
did it show of Falwell? A. I
am not going to discuss what people's
sexual preferences are. But, I tell you
I have got a photograph of Jerry Farwell masturbating.
And I've got a photograph of him fucking some
young girl. Now,
if you want them, you're going to have to get them from the Captain. Q. You
say you're not going to discuss the
privacy of people's sexual practices, Mr. Flynt? What
do you think you were doing in this ad? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. Abusive. A. It
involves children, Mr. Grutman. It
involves children. MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection to the abusive manner of Mr. Grutman's asking that
question. A. I
will talk about adults, but, remember, when
you invade the privacy of someone that is not old enough to speak for
themselves,
you're violating the rights of somebody who don't have any rights. That's children. And
it's called an individual liberty. And
no one has the right of taking the individual liberty of sticking their
sexual
organ in some child's mouth. Now, there's a big difference between civil rights and individual liberties. And you should learn the difference. I
mean, an individual liberty is something I'd like to do right now; take
a shit
right on top of your head. But,
now, civil rights is what these assholes over here are doing to me now. They're violating my civil rights, by making
me stand here and ask you to insult my intelligence. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. I
understand that as a champion of children,
you said what you did. But, do you think
that, with respect to adults, you can say anything that you want about
their private
sexual activities, whether it's real or fancied, or not? A. Yes. Q. No
matter how horrible it may be to the
average, ordinary person? A. Yes. Q. And
you think you can do that in a magazine,
and get away with it, don't you? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. It's irrelevant and
argumentative. A. Yes. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. As
a matter of fact, what you just described
is something that you and Hustler have been doing for years,
haven't
you? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. Irrelevant and
argumentative. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Haven't
you? A. You're
goddamn right. You can take
that to the bank, Mr. Grutman. Q. And
you love it, don't you? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. It's irrelevant and
argumentative. A. I
hate it, boy. * * * Q. I
see.
Now, the next thing says, "Wasn't it a little cramped?"
Answer, "Not after I kicked the goat out," close quote. You
got any proof of that? A. Yeah.
His -- the first time was a sheep. Q. You
got a photograph of Reverend Falwell
having coitus with a sheep? A. Yes,
I have. Q. You
do?
Where's that photograph? A. I
really have. It's in my property. Q. And
where is that physically located? A. Captain
Sivley's got it. It's here at FCI-Butner. And believe me, it's not in Q. Okay.
Let's continue. It says,
"Interviewer: I see. You must tell
me all about it." And quoting Falwell in this ad, quote, "I never
really expected to make it with Mom." By the
way, does the word or the phrase "make it" mean have sexual
intercourse? A. Yeah. Q. Okay.
"But then after she showed all the other guys in town such
a good
time, I figured, "What the hell!" close quote. MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection to the form of the question. It
is not an ad. It's a parody
of an ad.
And it also doesn't quote Falwell. A. Now,
see, you're talking about the sheep
there, Mr. Grutman. MR.
ISAACMAN: It has "Falwell," with some language following it. Q. I'll
read this to you again. Quote -- I'm
reading it exactly -- A. I
heard it. Q. Fine.
Then, I ask you, from that language, does that not convey
the notion
that Mrs. Falwell, Reverend Falwell's mother, was a promiscuous woman? A. No. He
was referring to the sheep, Mr. Falwell.
He was screwing the sheep, at that time.
See, he said he had to kick the goat out first. Q. But,
then it says, "I never really
expected to make it with Mom, but then after she showed all the other
guys in
town such a good time, I figured, 'What the hell!'" Are
you telling me "guys" means sheep? A. No.
She was having an affair. Q. With
whom? A. Hunh? Q. With
whom? A. I
don't think we should discuss that. Q. No. I
want to hear it from you, Mr. Flynt. Who
do you say Reverend Falwell's mother was having an affair with? A. Look,
I'm not going to give the name. You can
get it from Charlie Galbreath or
Robert Barr. I am not going to give out
the name. Or you can get it from
Lieutenant White or Captain Sivley. I'm
through wet snitching today. Q. I
put it to you, Mr. Flynt, that you are
making this up. You had no proof of any
such thing. A. You
wanna bet? Q. I'm
asking you now. A. If
I ain't crazy, why would I make this up? Q. Because,
Mr. Flynt, you're an utterly
irresponsible, arrogant, truculent, demented, deranged person. MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. Objection. You're not testifying here, Mr. Grutman. MR.
GRUTMAN: I was asked a question, and I've answered it. MR.
ISAACMAN: You're not testifying here. MR.
KAHN: You're supposed to be sworn first, Mr. Grutman. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Mr.
Flynt, did you, before this ad was
published, did you have any evidence, specifically, that Mrs. Falwell,
Reverend
Falwell's mother, had ever committed adultery or been a promiscuous or
lascivious woman, with other guys? A. Yes. Q. What
was that evidence? A. A
tape recording. Q. Who
gave you the tape recording? A. Mr.
Addison Lighthall, with the FBI. Q. Addison
Lighthall? Who's he? A. He's
been undercover with the FBI, for about
twenty-four years. Q. Twenty-four
years with the FBI?
Did he ever have anything to do with you? A. Yes. Q. What
did he do for you? A. Hunh? Q. What
did he do for you? A. He
bought the farm. Q. What
does buying the farm mean? A. Ah,
well, I understand he placed a tap on
Bill Ryder's phone and Gordon Novel's phone.
And I understand he loaned a three-way tap to Rogers Kirk. Q. This
man gave you a tape recording of Mrs.
Falwell, The Reverend's mother? Tell me
what was on the tape recording? A. It
was your voice, Mr. Grutman. Q. My
voice? And what was I doing on the tape
recording? A. You
was talking to Rogers Kirk. Q. Who
is Rogers Kirk? A. He's
a photographer in Q. Was
that in connection with Jackie Collins? A. Yes,
Mr. Grutman, it was. Q. Now,
I'm not asking you about Jackie
Collins. I'm asking you about a tape
recording which you told me that you claimed to have, indicating that
Reverend
Falwell's mother was an adulteress. A. Yep. Q. Did
you get such a tape recording? A. Sure
have. Q. Where
is it? A. Lieutenant
Stanley's got it. Q. Lieutenant
Stanley. Does he work for Captain Sivley? A. Yeah. Q. I
see. A. He
confiscated it from my room. * * * Q. What
was on the tape recording? A. Well,
there's several of them. There's several
hours of them, both video and
audio. Q. Mrs.
Falwell, Reverend Falwell's mother, on a
videotape? A. No.
I'm sorry. She's on audio. Q. On
audio.
What is she doing on audio? A. She's
talking. Q. To
whom? A. She's
talking to a friend. Q. And
what is she saying? A. She's
talking about her son. Q. When
was the recording made? A. I
do not have the date on the recording. Q. Was
it made by Addison Lightall? A. Yes. Q. Under
what circumstances did he gain access
to Mrs. Falwell's proximity, so that he was able to make this taped
conversation? A. When
he went to work for me. Q. When
did he do that? A. He
went to work for me in 1977. Q. Are
you sure of that? A. Positive. * * * Q. No.
I'm asking what proof you had about Mrs. Falwell, the
Reverend's mother,
having been a wicked and loose woman? A. She
was just saying that she wasn't -- that
his father wasn't really his father.
That's all. That he was a
bastard. Q. Mr.
Flynt -- A. I'm
under oath, Mr. Grutman. Q. Yes,
I know, Mr. Flynt. I
wonder whether you do. A. And
I'm not crazy. * * * Q. When
you got a tape recording of Mrs.
Falwell, the mother of Jerry Falwell, proving that he was an
illegitimate
person, and that she was a lascivious woman who was an adulteress,
considering
the gripe that you had with Mr. Falwell for as long as you profess to
have had
it, would you tell us why you waited until 1983, before you disclosed
it? A. Because
I wanted to run for president. Q. Have
you ever offered this tape to the world
at large? A. Ah,
yeah. Q. You
sold certain DeLorean tapes to CBS, didn't
you? MR.
ISAACMAN: Objection. Irrelevant. A. I
didn't sold them. I gave it to them. Q. Fine.
Did you ever give these tapes of Mrs. Falwell to any media? A. I
certainly did. Q. Who? A. Miss
Aviva Diamond, ABC News. Q. When
did you give it to Aviva Diamond? A. On
or about November 1st. Q. What
year? A. 1983. Q. This
is a tape, an audio tape, of Reverend
Falwell's mother, stating in words or substance that Jerry Falwell is
an illegitimate
child, and that she was a woman who fornicated with other men? A. No.
It's a tape of Addison Lighthall speaking with Fred
Fielding, about Mr.
Farwell. And he's also
talking to Mr. Don Penny about Mr. Farwell.
And Rudy Maxxa is on the tape, too. And
Mr. Grutman, I will produce these tapes for you, if you'll stay in Q. Where
are they? A. I
tell you what, you let -- Q. Where
are they? A. --
me know what hotel you're at, and they'll
-- Q. I'm
staying right here. Where are they? A. Okay.
I have got copies in a -- in the Federal Bank Depository,
in Now,
Mr. Kahn, if he was telling me the truth, David Kahn, not Ken Kahn, if
Mr.
David Kahn was telling me the truth in his Mailogram, that my property
-- certain
parts of my property in California, that is, not my property that's
here, but
my property in California is back in my house. WITNESS:
Is it back in my house, Mr. Kahn? I am
talking about the tapes, Mr. Kahn, the video and the audio tapes,
because I
made plenty of copies of them. And I
put some in your mother's safety deposit box, and some in Bill Ryder's
wife's
safety deposit box. He
thinks he's holding the royal flush, but we know who's holding it,
don't we,
Mr. Kahn? Now,
where is the tape at, Mr. Kahn, because I gave
it to you? And you seen it.
And you listened to it. And
I'm talking about the video tape of Mr. Reagan, not Mr. Meese, because
Arthur
Barrons has got the Meese tape. But,
you've got the audio tape between Jerry Falwell and Don Penny, and Rudy
Maxxa,
and Ronald Reagan. And
you know goddamn good and well what it was, because I put you on the
phone, and
you talked to Mr. Don Penny on the phone.
And you told Mr. Don Penny to leave me alone. MR.
GRUTMAN: I call upon Mr. Kahn to produce the materials. MR.
KAHN: I know of no such materials, Mr. Grutman. WITNESS:
You are lying, Mr. Kahn. You are
lying. And if Mr. Kahn does not want to
produce it, Captain Sivley or Lieutenant Stanley will produce it. Do you
think -- hey, both of them guys are Americans.
And they both fought in the war.
And they have no intentions of leaving the country. Besides, do you think they could outrun a
subpoena. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Mr. Flynt, if Mr. Kahn is a liar, and won't do your bidding, even though he's one of your lawyers, will you authorize Captain Sivley or Lieutenant Stanley to allow me to go into your room with you, after we finish this deposition? A. I
certainly will. Q. And
will you deliver to me the materials
which you've told me so far are in your room? A. I
certainly will. Q. All
right.
Then we go on further.
"Interviewer: But your mom?
Isn't that a bid odd? Falwell:
I
don't think so. Looks don't mean that
much to me in a woman." A. Can
we interrupt the proceedings one second? Q. Sure.
Yeah. WITNESS:
David Kahn, me and Mr. Isaacman will handle things.
Will you go call the law firm of Gaither and
Nolan, and tell them to call Paul Ennis, and tell Paul Ennis to bring
the And
Captain Sivley will arrange for a viewing, in some room here in the
prison,
either in my room or here. Okay. And
we'll also arrange for the audio tape to be played, as well. Okay? MR.
KAHN: Larry, we're going to probably be taking a break.
So, you want to wait until then? WITNESS:
No. We don't need you here for this, Mr.
Kahn. You go make the call.
And call Gaither and Nolan, you know.
And do you know how to say "Code
Pink"? MR.
KAHN: Yes, sir. WITNESS:
Tell them who bought the farm, Mr. Kahn. * * * Q. What
proof did you have that Reverend Falwell
has ever gotten drunk? A. Congressman
Robert K. Dornan told me. So did
Congressman Bill Keating. So did Charlie
Keating. And so did Eugene Smith. And so did Attorney Larry Stirts.
And so did Attorney Charlie Capps. And
so did Judge Simon Lease, and so did Fred
Kartilano, the prosecutor in Q. They
all told you this, before November? A. And
so did Brian Huff, the prosecutor in Q. They
told you that? A. Yeah. Q. Leonard
Rhodes? A. Leonard
Rhodes told me that. Do you know Leonard? Q. Yes,
I do. A. Good
man.
You think he'd lie? Q. I
don't know that he said what you said. A. If
he said what I said he said, can we take
it to the bank? Q. What
makes you think that Reverend Falwell
ever drank Campari, ginger ale and soda? A. Mr.
Salisbury told me so. Q. And
this sentence, "And mom looked
better than a Baptist whore with a hundred-dollar donation." Who
wrote those words? A. Mr.
Bruce Helford. Q. Do
you think those words are true? A. Yes. Q. Do
you think that if they were false, and somebody
read
this his mother was characterized as a whore, that that would be a
hurtful
thing to him? A. If
it was -- MR. ISAACMAN:
Objection. You're assuming it was intended
to be true? A. If
it was true, I don't think it would hurt. DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. But,
if it were false? A. If
it was false, I think it would upset Mr.
Falwell very much. But, if it was true,
I don't think it would. Q. Did
you want to upset Reverend Falwell? A. Yes. Q. Evening
the score? A. Yes.
But, I was telling the truth. Q. "Interviewer:
Campari in the crapper
with Mom -- how interesting. Well, how
was it? Falwell: The Campari was
great." Do you
remember the next line? A. "The
Campari was great." But,
something about the order? Q. No.
"But Mom passed out before I could come." Does
the verb "come", in that context, stand for ejaculate or have a
climax? A. Yes. Q. What
proof did you ever have that such a
thing took place? A. Well,
you see, Farwell's -- Farwell's mother
had been drunk the night she got pregnant with him.
That's what it was, you know, so it was just
taking a little bit. Q. This
talks about, not the night that he was
conceived, this talks about incest between someone who is
post-pubescent and
his mother. A. Oh,
no.
We're talking about the goat, now.
You forgot to double back, Mr. Grutman. Q. "Mom
passed out before I could
come." A. Yeah.
He was fucking the goat -- the day she caught him fucking
the goat
once. That's in the affidavit. You see what I'm saying? Q. No. I
don't. A. Well,
they had some animals on their
farm. So, when Farwell was a little boy,
he got caught by his mother, once masturbating, and another time,
screwing some
of the animals on the farm. You know, I
mean, you opened up this can of worms. I
didn't. Q. Do
you have any photographs or tape
recordings which were in your possession, before you caused this thing
to
appear? A. Certainly
do.
They're in my room. And I
give
Captain Shivley permission to let you go in there and get them. And
you know what? He ain't going to say no. He's going to let you have them. Q. Can
we do that during the lunch period? A. We
certainly can. Q. Thank
you.
Let that be clear. I'll do it
during the lunch period. I'm almost
finished with this, and then we
can take the lunch. "Campari
in the crapper" -- well, we've done that. "Interviewer:
Did you ever try it again?" What
does the antecedent of "it" refer to? A. I
mean did he ever try the goat again. Q. Oh,
goat.
I see. A. Okay. Q. It
doesn't refer to his mother? A. Yeah.
But, he never -- it had happened several times with his
mother. But, it was with the guy that she
was having
the affair with. Q. Who
was that guy? A. Hunh? Q. Can
you identify her paramour? A. Yes. Q. Who? A. Galbreath. Q. Galbreath? A. Yeah.
He'll tell you. That's not
the
name, but I mean, he'll give you the affidavit. Q. No.
You tell me the name. Who is
the
person -- A. I
don't remember the name. But, does it make
any difference? As long as I'm telling the
truth, does names and
dates and places really matter? Q. And
of course, if you're not, Mr. Flynt -- A. I'm
in a world of trouble, ain't I? Q. You
bet. A. Okay. Q. You
bet.
Take that to the bank. * * * Q. Anything
else in there so far that we've
covered, which you contributed to, if not entirely advanced? A. Well,
Howard, who's a friend of Pat Boone's,
the one guy I got the affidavit
from. And another one is a former
governor of WITNESS:
And Isaacman, he's the guy that was at my house with John Pauley. And he's doing two years now, with that
congressman,
with Jenrette's husband. They're down at
-- I think they're down at Eglin, or somewhere.
You know what I'm saying? So,
what you're going to do, is you're going to have to call Charlie
Galbreath, you
know, and get Howard's number. And get
the governor of MR.
GRUTMAN: Okay. WITNESS:
You know what I'm talking about? You
understand -- do you know who Mr. Galbreath is? MR.
ISAACMAN: No. WITNESS:
He is a Supreme Court Judge from the State of And
his address is 901 Stallman Building, Q. I
take it, then, from what you -- WITNESS:
Now, do you think you could call him and get a copy of that affidavit? MR.
ISAACMAN: (No response) DIRECT
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR.
GRUTMAN: Q. Mr.
Flynt, I take it, then, from what you're
telling me, that this publication about Reverend Falwell and Campari
was not intended
to parody or exaggerate anything, but to convey the truth.
Is that right? A. Yes,
sir. * * * Q. And
didn't it occur to you that if that wasn't
true, you were attacking a man in his profession? A. Yes. Q. Did
you appreciate, at the time that you
wrote "okay," or approved this publication, that for Reverend Falwell
to function in his livelihood, and in his commitment and career, he has
to have
an integrity that people believe in? Did
you not appreciate that? A. Yeah. Q. And
wasn't one of your objectives to destroy
that integrity, or harm it, if you could? A. To
assassinate it. * * * Q. That's
Judge Larkins? A. Judge
Larkins. He sent it back and wouldn't open
the envelope,
because I wrote him a letter, and told him it was coming.
And I told him how I got it into the penitentiary. I
brought it in by my daughter, Judith Elaine Flynt, whose natural
father,
natural father, is John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Natural father. She's
got two different birth certificates.
And the footprints are in
the snow. And
she hired an attorney named Mr. Manning.
And he came in to tell me I was in the wrong state. And I reminded him I was in the right state,
when I gave him Jesse Helm's bank account.
It's under the name of Western Goals, in Q. Right. A. Now,
I put the tape that you want in an
envelope to Judge Robert Tagasugi. And I
sent it to the Federal Courthouse, in The
BOP deliberately opened up that package, and took the tape out of there. And they took a lot of other documents out of
there that are pertinent to what we're doing here involving Mr.
Farwell,
because the affidavit that I have from the people in Virginia is a real
affidavit, by real persons. And I
have a court order in those proceedings that says that the Bureau of
Prisons
can put whatever limitations that they want on these depositions. Now, what they're doing is they're putting
every limitation that they possibly can on them, so they can try to go
home
tonight. But,
if you do your job, none of them
will go home, we'll get Mr. Sam Samples, or Dr. Sam Samples held in
contempt. And
believe me, Dr. Sam Samples has a name, and so does every other asshole
in here
that's been violating my civil rights since I've been here. * * * MR.
GRUTMAN: Did you cause a search to be made of Mr. Flynt's room? MR.
WILLINGHAM: Yes. MR.
GRUTMAN: When you say you're the case manager, does that mean that this
person
is under your jurisdiction? MR.
WILLINGHAM: I provide casework type services to him.
Yes. MR.
GRUTMAN: Okay. Did you find any
videotapes back in Mr. Flynt's room. MR.
WILLINGHAM: No. I did not. MR.
GRUTMAN: Did you find any audio tapes back in his room? MR.
WILLINGHAM: No. MR.
GRUTMAN: Did you find any photographs back in his room? MR.
WILLINGHAM: No. MR.
GRUTMAN: Specifically, photographs involving Mr. Falwell having sexual
intercourse with his mother? MR.
WILLINGHAM: No. MR.
GRUTMAN: Any boys? MR.
WILLINGHAM: No. MR.
GRUTMAN: Or any animals? MR.
WILLINGHAM: No. MR.
GRUTMAN: Or masturbating? MR.
WILLINGHAM: No. MR.
GRUTMAN: Did you find any affidavits or copies of affidavits attesting
to that
fact Mr. [*140] Falwell
had had incest with his mother, or
was observed by anyone to have been masturbating, by looking at a
picture of
his mother in a Sears Roebuck catalog?
Did you find such a thing? MR.
WILLINGHAM: I asked Mr. Flynt for items that would pertain to this
hearing. And he gave me a stack of legal
materials here. And I've brought those
up here. MR.
GRUTMAN: Okay. Well, we'll look at those
later on. WITNESS:
Will you have Mr. Willingham bring them over here, so I can get you
what you
want? MR.
GRUTMAN: All right. WITNESS:
Bring them over here, Mr. Willingham. MR.
ISAACMAN: Mr. Kahn reviewed those materials.
And I'd like Mr. Kahn to indicate -- MR.
KAHN: In Mr. Willingham's presence, approximately a couple of minutes
ago, I
went through the entire stack of documents in front of him. And
while I did not read any of the letters or documents in the thing,
there were
-- every document I reviewed in front of Mr. Willingham.
And there were no affidavits, and there were
no photographs of any kind. There were
no tape recordings of any kind. There
were no tape recordings of any kind, or anything like that. WITNESS:
You're a liar, Mr. Kahn. MR.
KAHN: Well -- WITNESS: You're a liar, Mr. Kahn. MR.
GRUTMAN: Mr. Kahn, were there any documents relating to Reverend
Falwell? MR.
KAHN: None that I saw. WITNESS:
Did you open all the envelopes, Mr. Kahn? MR.
KAHN: No. I did not open all the
envelopes. WITNESS:
Then, Mr. Kahn, would you mind handing me the paper? * * * Q. Do
you realize, Mr. Flynt, that you can
injure people by inflicting mental suffering and disturbance on them,
that will
cause pain that is as great or greater than physical suffering? A. You
goddamn fucking right. And you're all
going to be on your knees,
before we finish here. * * * Q. How
about his daughter? Do you say he made any
threats on your
daughter Tonya? A. Did
he what?
No. He had nothing to say
about
Tonya. Q. Besides
-- A. Excuse
me a minute. Captain
Sivley, you told me if I behaved, those cuffs wouldn't go back on when
I got
back over there. Now, when I went back
over there -- and I want you to write this down -- he assaulted me, and
he put
the cuffs back on. And
the reason why he assaulted me is because I told the truth over here. And you guys took me back over, saying I was
acting crazy. Q. Mr. Flynt, apart from -- A. And
they did not let me eat when I was back
there. They would not let me go to the
bathroom. But, everybody was doing their
little behavior modification. Like, the
dentist was there, ready to put my tooth back in again, which he
knocked out
the other night, Mr. Kaiser, because I refused to eat the food and
drink the
water. You
know the reason why? Because there's
nine letters that Captain Sivley has, but I got three more I want to
show you
from Mr. Paul Ennis, my attorney, postmarked You
see what I'm saying? Q. Mr.
Flynt, we are -- A. My
life's in danger, not yours, asshole. Okay?
And you just let me finish. You
come here to take these depositions today, but don't interrupt my
statements or
my answers. I'm not asking questions;
I'm making a statement. Q. How
about answering questions? A. Now,
Captain Sivley knows who sent those
letters threatening to poison me. Q. Mr.
Flynt -- A. He
knows every person in here who has
assaulted me. And he will tell the
truth, if you put him under oath. Now,
we've got to get to the medical question here on this.
And I haven't told one single lie. Sometimes
I talk in parables and make jokes, because you have to maintain your
sanity in
any goddamn fucking proceedings like this. Now,
do you people understand what I'm trying to say? * * * Q. .
. . I want you, while you're on camera, to
find the Fielding envelope which you just referred to in answering my
question
that within the Fielding envelope would be found the certification
authenticating forensically that the photograph of Jerry Falwell and
Warren
Burger in fellatio is an authentic photograph. Now
you find that one for me, and then I'll take your whole grab bag. MR.
ISAACMAN: I have an objection to your taking his whole grab bag. MR.
GRUTMAN: He's offered it to me. MR.
ISAACMAN: I understand, but I don't think -- I don't think he's -- I
don't
think he's competent to make that decision. WITNESS:
The hell I ain't competent to make it.
Just watch me. Why
did you take the envelope addressed to Mr. Fielding? MR.
KAHN: I didn't take anything. Mr.
Willingham, you saw me review it, one at the time, and you saw I did
not open
anything and did not take anything. A. Well,
Mr. Grutman, I had a copy. I'll make a
copy of everything. Q. You've got it? Open it up. Just open it up on camera while the videotape
is rolling. Please open that.
And the winner in A. (hands
document to counsel) * * * Q. I'll
take that. A. Give
me -- I want to mark this one. Q. I
can't interfere with the procedures here. A. Give
me a pencil. I'm not giving it to him
without my initials
on it, Mr. Willingham, may I borrow your pen? MR. ISAACMAN:
I am raising an objection to his turning over any documents that
counsel does
not approve of, and my objection is that he's not competent to make
that determination. He's represented by
counsel -- WITNESS:
(Interposing) Oh, I can prove to
you I am competent. MR.
ISAACMAN: -- Counsel rules, counsel has indicated that those documents
should
not be turned over. And so I request
that, Mr. Grutman, you not review these documents that he's turning
over
without counsel's consent until a court makes a determination on his
competency. WITNESS:
Hey, Mr. Grutman, we got the goods on them.
Just take this. I'll fire
some
more your way in just a minute. MR.
KAHN: All right, Mr. Grutman, I'm also telling you that there have been
a
number of courts which have indicated that Mr. Flynt's not competent. And that you're reviewing those documents
without his counsel seeing them. WITNESS:
These aren't the ones that were in the envelope. He's
a liar, Mr. Grutman. These were the ones
outside the envelope. * * * Q. (by
Mr. Grutman) Now, I've marked these
various documents, Mr. Flynt, and none of them appear to be what I
asked
for. Namely, where is the forensic
certification as to the authenticity of the photograph of Warren Burger
and
Jerry Falwell in fellatio? A. Would
you let the record reflect that I will
produce that affidavit before the conclusion of these depositions? Q. You
told me it was among the papers -- A. (Interposing)
Then, fine, let me take time to
find it. If you want to proceed -- Q. Fine,
I'll give you all the time you want. A. Fine,
okay. Q. You
don't have to do it right now, Mr. Flynt. A. Okay,
well, right here. I think you might want
to depose Captain
Sivley. Q. Fine.
No, you hold on to that. You
hold
on to -- A. (Interposing)
Here it is, here it is. Q. Here
is what? A. Here
it is. Q. Here
is what? A. (Hands
paper writing to counsel) Read
it. You've got my permission to read it. Q. It's
the last document I'm going to look at,
waste time -- A. (Interposing)
Look at it, look at it. Q. Okay. MR.
KAHN: Mr. Grutman, I really think, you know, you've already been
informed as to
the fact that Mr. Flynt's represented by an attorney, and his attorney
has indicated
that he -- MR.
GRUTMAN: (Interposing) All right, this will be Exhibit No. 9 (sic). It's apparently a request made to Captain
Sivley. MR.
KAHN: -- he wishes to view these documents, and never -- MR.
GRUTMAN: It is dated April 3, 1984, and it reads as follows: "I request
a
video monitor and a VHS video recorder for the purpose of viewing the
Vicki
Morgan sex tapes featuring Ronald
Reagan, Edwin Meese, Senator Paul Laxalt, Bill Casey, William French
Smith,
Barry Goldwater, Jr., and a lot of other celebrities and politicians. Vicki Morgan and three FBI agents have been
killed over the tapes. "Make
the equipment available, and I'll have the tapes here in twenty-four
hours, or
give me a BP-9." Close quote. (Plaintiff's
Deposition Exhibit 8 Marked For Identification) Q. (by
Mr. Grutman) Among the people you
mentioned, you didn't mention Warren Burger or Jerry Falwell by name,
did you? A. I'm
not God, Mr. Grutman. I couldn't manage to
get them all on
tape. But the ones I haven't got, the
law firm of Gaither and Noland in Q. I
read you -- A. (Interposing)
He had the one faked by Bill
Ryder and Gordon Novel, and I want to know if David Kahn had anything
to do
with that tape. Q. The
next one reads -- A. (Interposing)
And Mr. Grutman, Jeff Steinman
-- MR.
ISAACMAN: You understand, Mr. Grutman, I have an objection to each one
of these
documents. But
the color tapes you can't fake, because they show the sweat and the
pores, and
they show the blood, and they show everything.
I gave Mr. Marlon Brando a copy, and he has advised me by
telephone that
he would be happy to make it available to you. Q. All
right. A. Mr.
Tom Loflin has a copy, and I arranged a
screening over at Mr. Loflin's house and showed the Jerry Farwell tape
and the
Ronald Reagan tape and the Ed Meese tape to Mr. Clifford Pearlman, and
he had
his wife with him, Mr. and Mrs. Clifford Pearlman. * * * Q. And
I take it that you wanted to embarrass
Chief Justice Burger and Reverend Falwell, didn't you? A. Damn
right. Q. It
wasn't a parody. You really intended to
hurt them, didn't you? A. You're goddamn right. That
attorney
there, Mr. Grutman, Mr. Mitch Basker, he's handling negotiations with
the White
House on these tapes. Now
you know, when you first make this word public, they'll say I'm lying
and then
they'll say I'm crazy. And then we'll
teach how to double back, Mr. Grutman. * * * Q. Did
you -- let's see, December 1981. Were you
aware that in the publisher's
statement, Reverend Falwell and the Moral Majority were again adversely
referred
to in the pages of Hustler? A. Yes. MR.
GRUTMAN: I offer that as the next numbered exhibit. (Plaintiff's
Deposition Exhibit 16 was Marked For Identification) A. If
I take responsibility for it all, you
don't really have to worry about getting -- Q. (Interposing)
Well, I know, but I have to do
this in English to simply build a record. Now,
here's Dwaine Tinsley again in the February 1982 issue.
It shows a patriarchal figure sitting in a
chair labeled "God," and it says, "Send someone down to see
Falwell. Tell him to get off his power
trip." A. Hey,
David. (Plaintiff's
Deposition Exhibit 17 was Marked For Identification) Q. Mr.
Flynt, do you take responsibility for
that cartoon? A. Sure, yeah. Q. And
it was intended, of course, again, to
hold Reverend Falwell up to hatred, obloquy, scorn, contempt or
truculence, as
I think you added? A. No.
There's the affidavit you wanted, and it didn't quite make
it. It's to Judge Tagasugi, and somebody
fucked
with it before it got there. Q. All
right, I'm going to pause and open up -- A. (Interposing)
You keep that. Stick that in your pocket,
Mr. Grutman. Q. I'm
going to open it on the T.V. You've
handed me an envelope which says it has an affidavit in it -- A. Well,
it's been opened now, and taped back
up, and I didn't do that. I don't know
what they took out of it. Let's see what's
in there. MR.
ISAACMAN: You're opening it over objection of counsel. MR.
GRUTMAN: Yes, I'm opening it over objection.
It was handed to me by Mr. Flynt. Q. (By
Mr. Grutman) It reads -- it's from you. A. Unh-hunh.
(Yes) Would you read it for the record? Q. It's
dated March 19, 1984. All right? I'm
going to read it into the record. We
have a little time. A. Good. Q. "Dear
Robert." It's addressed to
Robert Tagasugi, which I take it is a Federal Judge in A. Yeah. Q. And
this is from you? A. I'm
on a first-name basis with him now. Q. Okay,
it reads: "I
have given up on these motherfuckers.
I'm writing to you as a final, rather -- as a friend --
rather than as a
judge, because I have nothing better to do. "Judge
Larkins said I could have my food supplement -- ah -- can't read it --
said I
could be examined by my own doctors. But
so far, Warden Samples has refused to obey any judge other than judge
-- other
than the sentencing judge. "Dr.
Kirby Samples say that your lack jurisdiction (sic) because you are not
the
sentencing judge. "I
say this because I told them that you and Judge Marshall had ordered my
nurse
therapist and -- something or other -- in at A. Kinesiologist. Q. Anesthesiologist? A. Kinesiologist. There's a difference. Neorkinesiologist. Q. "They
say the order must be reaffirmed
each visit. So help me, when I get these
handcuffs off and out of these restraints, I will choke the little
cock-sucker
until he turns blue in the face. Being
dumb is just no excuse for violating someone's civil rights. "I
think I will ask Reagan for diplomatic immunity, and then I'm going to
go to "The
Secret Service was in again, asking if I was serious.
How dumb can they get? I
can't even get indicted for pimping." A. Perjury. Q. Oh,
for perjury? All right. "Gay
Talese" -- you may yet, Mr. Flynt. A. I'm
trying. Q. "Gay
Talese" -- you bet. Take that to the bank. "Gay
Talese, the author who wrote 'Honor thy Father,' has fucked the same
blonde
that John F. Kennedy and I screwed around the USS Enterprise. You should ask Gay how old she was at the
time. She said she was 19, but I swear
she didn't look over 15. "Jack
Alnap called her the blue nun, but it was really --" A. Jack
who? Q. Alnap? A. Jack
who? Q. It
says Alnap. A. Let
me see that. Q. "But
it was really brandy, white wine,
or red wine. He didn't give a shit who
knew, and neither did I." A. Oh,
that's Jack Kennedy. Put it in there right. Okay? Q. Oh,
this is "Jack always." Sorry, I
misread that. "The
black widow was the code, 'Bravo Whiskey,' which meant we were fucking
and no
one should come in the Admiral's cabin.
To for Tango meant Tallyho. That
was also the name of a bar in "But
I'm not going to give you her last name because
I don't trust your brother. "My
one doctor George Ward has moved to Hannans, according to --" A. Has
moved to Q. Hawaii.
"-- according to Marshall Laslow.
He doesn't want to --" A. Dr.
Marshall Laslow. Q. "--
doesn't want to waste time with the
study ordered by Ms. Dwyer. So if you
don't want --" A. Judge
Dwyer.
Magistrate Dwyer. Q. "--
you don't want to order her here, I
guess that there is another dead doctor.
They all think that they are God.
But you and I both know that George Wallace -- something
-- himself --
claimed himself God before I came along." A. No,
George Wallace declared himself -- Q. "--
God long before I came along. You see the
flag nor the purple heart never
bothered them, because they know I earned them both.
It is where I stuck the flag that is driving
them crazy. They can't figure out
whether I stuck it in the Koran or in the King James. "Mrs.
Lillian once told me when I visited Plains, A. Preferred. Q. "--
preferred the Koran over the 'hand,'
you know what I mean?" A. The
hand, h-a-n-d. Q. Yeah, what is that? A. The
Samurai. Q. Oh,
I see. "Well,
I tell you, I prefer the real thing, and I don't mean the judge. Real, I mean, the real wine.
They have a bottle on the menu that cost ten
thousand a bottle. Why don't you come
down and visit with Charlie and I 'ops' remember Charlie and the Viet
Kong
(sic) were the same --" A. ASAP. Q. "--
'Victor Kilo.' They will both kill
you unless you know them both. "We
will make Ronnie and "You
can bet your ass the death penalty will stay if I have anything to say
about
it. It should be in "the federal
system, too. "I
hope Bush tries to pander just one of these assholes.
Essentially --" A. Pardon. Q. Pardon. "Especially
Casey. I want that motherfucker all to
myself, you know. I think the victim's
family should decide how they should die or be punished.
I favor torture over the death penalty. "Don't
forget if you come bringing some Jazula and Saki. Tell
the Gruk to bring the ozo." A. Ozo
Saki. Q. "Well,
Bob, it's the late show you are on again, so I
am signing
off. Your friend, Larry." Well,
I have read all of that. I'll put it in
an envelope and ask that it be marked as an exhibit. A. Ask
that it goes to Judge Tagasugi. Q. Yeah,
and I will ask you, Mr. Flynt, whether
you remember that before you asked me to read that, you told me that
was the
affidavit to prove the truth of Reverend Falwell's fornication and
incest, et
cetera. A. Well,
it was in the envelope and they opened
it up and took it out. Sivley knows
exactly where it is. It's with the
glasses. And I
think you ought to ask him to go get it because it's signed. (Plaintiff's
Deposition Exhibit 18 was Marked For Identification) Q. I
show you the March 1983 issue of Hustler
-- A. (Interposing)
I can't keep them from
tampering with my mail. Can you? * * * Q. I
thought you told me that everything that
appeared in Hustler when you were in charge had to get your
approval? A. That
cartoon was commissioned by the
publisher at the same time I put Jesus H. Christ on the masthead of
that
December issue. He
came in like Mr. Spock. He would beam up
through the window. * * * Q. You
suggest Reverend Falwell messed with your leg? A. I'm
saying Reverend Farwell messed with my
cock, and that's enough. He kept me in
pain for six years. Q. In
what respect did Reverend Falwell mess
with your penis? A. 'Cause
Reverend Farwell ordered -- Q. Ordered
what?
? A. --
my assassination in Q. You
know, Mr. Flynt, you expect us to take
you seriously about this. There are
about a half a dozen people that you have accused of being responsible
for your
being physically injured in 1978. A. There
were several people involved. I'll be glad
to give you all their names. Q. Yes.
Have you ever before today suggested that Reverend Falwell
was in any
way involved in a conspiracy to effect your having been shot? A. Yes. Q. Where
did you do that? A. I
told Mr. David Kahn this. And I tried to
tell Mr. Isaacman, but he
would not listen to it. He made me tell
a psychiatrist instead. But
Mr. Kahn has always known, and in addition to that, there's one set of
psychiatric records that I want to give you permission to get. It's from * * * Q. Have
you attempted to divest yourself of your assets
so as to render
yourself execution-proof in the event that Reverend Falwell obtains a
judgment
against you? A. No. I
want Reverend Farwell to obtain a judgment against him, because what
I'd like
to do -- see, I'm putting out two editions of Hustler now --
soft-core
and hard-core. The
soft-core edition is going to be for the Jesus freaks, you know. And the hard-core edition's going to be for
me and all the rest of the perverts. Q. You
consider yourself a pervert? A. No. I
don't, but everybody else does. So I'm
going to go along with them. * * * Q. That's
right, Mr. Flynt. You blew up the Senate
building. A. Is
that -- * * * A. No,
sir.
I want to tell you who blew up the building. Q. Okay. A. Bill
Ryder and Gordon Novel blew it up. And
John DeLorean -- Q. They
were working for you at the time. A. John
DeLorean had nothing to do with it. No. Q. But
they were working for you at the time,
weren't they? A. No.
Jean Caufield and Sam -- and Sam was working -- what's
Sam's last name
-- Sam -- MR.
KAHN: Bast. A. No,
you're talking about Big Bast. I'm talking
about Sam Walker -- General
Walker from Atlanta, 'cause he's
the one told me about General Brown and Farwell's connection to the CDC
--
Center for Disease Control. We had
the meeting, and, see, I was meeting with Stokely Carmichael and
Russell Means,
and Dr. Madalyn Murray O'Hair. Okay. And I
was up till four o'clock in the morning trying to make sure that
nothing
happened. Okay? And
that's the night that I traded the Meese tape for the Laxalt tape --
Senator
Paul Laxalt, Republican, Q. Mr.
Flynt -- A. And
Mr. Frank Sinatra has a copy. * * * Q. Okay.
Before I conclude my examination of you, and turn you over
to your own
counsel for cross-examination, I would like to ask you one last time,
do you
presently have any tape recording, any video tape, any photograph, any
affidavit, or any other writing which is in this facility or in this
room which
indicates that there is any truth to what was published in the Campari
ad about
Reverend Falwell? A. Yes.
Yes. Q. And
I will ask you a very simple question, in
two words, produce it. A. I
am on disciplinary segregation. I have
been placed there by the IDC unit and
the UDC team. I have asked that Judge
John B. Larkins lift the
sanctions imposed by the Bureau of Prisons so they will return my
property to
me. But
everything I am asking you for, I have given copies to Lieutenant
Stanley
George Zahalion and Alan Graham. And
Madalyn Murray O'Hair and Dick Gregory have some of them. Now
the information that you want on Mr. Farwell, I'll tell you what, it is
real. Okay? And you know who I want to
get it from? I want to get it from Dr.
Alan Freedman at * * * Q. Whether
they were in A. No. I
gave power of attorney for that purpose to Dr. Victor Coleman, I went
up to meet with him at the same time I met with the FBI.
And I met with Ken Graybill, the deputy
director of the criminal division of the FBI.
Him and Don Foster. And
Don Foster and him and And
they presented to me at that time a tape of Bill Casey and William
French Smith
laughing and talking about how
they overthrew the government of Helmut Schmidt and Helmut Cole in And I
have all of this stuff in a safe place.
And I got plenty of copies if you want it.
You got to understand, boy, the FBI is
working for me. Not you. Q. Thank
you very much, Mr. Flynt. * * * |